[arch-general] Think twice before moving to systemd

[Felipe Contreras]

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Leon Feng <rainofchaos at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2012/8/15 Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras at gmail.com>:
>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Tom Gundersen <teg at jklm.no> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Felipe Contreras
>>> <felipe.contreras at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I don't have that machine available at the moment, but I don't see how
>>>> such an issue could have been fixed given the lack of interest from
>>>> Lennart in that G+ post.
>>>
>>> Without the insults, this would have been picked up on and sorted out
>>> a long time ago. At least based on my experience.
>>
>> That's a loss for systemd, not for me. And I didn't insult anybody,
>> Lennart did, so it's not my fault.
>>
>>>> I do read and write
>>>> C everyday for probably for more than 10 years now, yet I do have
>>>> trouble reading systemd's code, but that's not important, what is
>>>> important is that in order to test my modifications (to add debugging
>>>> for example), I would need to *recompile*.
>>>
>>> I'm aware that you are a professional, that's why I find your claims
>>> about the difficulty of understanding/recompiling... odd. By contrast,
>>> my C skills/experience are virtually nonexistent, and yet I have had
>>> no problems understanding/debugging/recompiling/patching the systemd
>>> code.
>>
>> It's not my claims, it's a fact; compiling is more complicated than
>> not-compiling (one step less), and you need a compiler, and linker
>> (and in some systems development packages), and sometimes deploying
>> the binaries. With scripting you don't need any of that; after you are
>> done editing the text (which you have to do regardless), you are done.
>>
>>>> Well, I see absolutely no evidence of such an analysis, so consider me
>>>> a skeptic.
>>>
>>> That's ok. We are not in the PR business, we are not selling anything.
>>
>> You are selling a distribution. When Arch Linux stops giving the users
>> what they want, the users will go for a different distribution. That's
>> how distributions die; when something better is on the market for most
>> of their users.
>
> Arch is always give user's their options they want.
>
> You can use initscript, even if systemd is the default just like I can
> use systemd now when initscript is the default. Switch from one to
> another is very easy.  So use systemd as default does not means you
> can not use initscript.

This is not what I've been reading on the mailing list. People want to
get rid of initscripts, as maintaining both would be a "burden", and
certain projects behave differently with or without systemd (wedge
strategy).

-- 
Felipe Contreras