[arch-general] SystemD poll

[Bigby James]

On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:08 PM, Anthony ''Ishpeck'' Tedjamulia <
archlinux at ishpeck.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 10:03:44PM -0300, Denis A. Alto?? Falqueto wrote:
> > You know that all this jibber-jabber could be easily avoided if you
> > just asked for help or opened bug reports, don't you? You know, just
> > like when polite peopple try to solve their own problems and, when
> > nothing else seems to work, ask for help in a friendly community, with
> > a friendly attitude. That is what really mekes Arch so good and you
> > seems to ignore so many times.
>
> He is trying to reason with the friendly community.  He has a
> particular idea that he thinks is a good one.  Open discourse
> is a healthy part of an open source community; all ideas are
> put forward and subjected to peer review and the mighty hammer
> of experiment.
>
> I know it can be frustrating when people disagree with you so
> vehemently but he's not trying to insult you and the nature
> of the Internet is such that I think you could stand to grow
> some thicker skin.
>
> If you think Filipe is wrong, explain it to him.  If he
> ignores your explanations, then ignore him.
>
>
Having watched this thread (and the "Beware" thread) for some time, I can
say without equivocation that Felipe is not trying to "reason" with
anyone.  He clearly doesn't understand the concepts he himself refers to
(rules of evidence, burden of proof, logical fallacies) and is attempting
to sound more knowledgeable than he is.  He has failed to present evidence
for his own case while ignoring that of his detractors--indeed, he states
that it's not his job to convince anyone that he's right, but rather that
his claims should be enough reason for the devs to do what he says--and
seems to think that while his single anecdotal case counts for something,
all others contradicting it are worthless.  He attacks the credibility of
those clearly more competent than himself, makes no technical claims that
he can back up and states hypotheticals of which he can't know anything,
admitting he couldn't be bothered to actually try anything out or inform
himself (this has cropped up a couple times on the forums as well, where
some posters took it on themselves to blame systemd for problems systemd
wouldn't cause, e.g. the bootloader failing to boot another distro).

Folks, I'm not laying blame here, but this thread derailed the moment
anyone participating took this man seriously.  It seems he's just trying to
get a rise out of everyone, or if not then he simply doesn't understand
either proper argumentation and logic (as his innumerable straw-men and
distraction tactics suggest), or how to present a case without pissing off
those who know better than he does.  It's perfectly natural to want to
guard what we love and avoid change to an extent--it's an instinct we
inherited from those ancestors of ours who first took up axe and shovel and
chose to live in boxes rather than bushes.  But mindless intransigence
never got anyone anywhere, nor did  brainless badgering.  Either learn more
about the topic at hand, gather data and make a cogent argument; or accept
that things are changing and leave it at that.

And for the record: An ad hominem argument is 100% fallacious only when it
serves to distract others from the subject at hand by making irrelevant
claims.  It is not fallacious to, for example, point out that Jenny McArthy
opposes vaccines while singing the praises of Botox on the grounds that the
former are "poisons."  If an ad hominem attack reveals the incompetence,
ignorance or hypocrisy of the target with regard to the subject of debate,
it's not entirely fallacious; while it suggests neither that vaccines are
harmful or beneficial, it serves as proof that the target is not a reliable
source of information.  Oh, and the whole "I'm just asking questions"
schtick is the fall-back for every crank everywhere ever.  Never trust the
competence of someone who's "just asking questions;"  they're /always/
being rhetorical, just trying to sow FUD--the big give-away in Felipe's
case being that he's not asking for help, but demanding the devs comply
with his wishes.  Just let this guy get back to feasting on festering goat
carcass under his bridge.