[arch-releng] grub install not listing partitions

[Dieter Plaetinck]

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 13:14:49 +0100
Dieter Plaetinck <dieter at plaetinck.be> wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 09:34:57 +0000
> Eric Fernandez <zeb at zebulon.org.uk> wrote:
> 
> > 2011/12/16 Matthew Gyurgyik <pyther at pyther.net>:
> > >
> > > I agree with Thomas.
> > >
> > > 1.) There are better alternatives to installing grub on a
> > > partition (see Thomas' mail).
> > >
> > > 3.) Don't use grub-legacy (not supported upstream or maintained).
> > > Use syslinux (installer) or grub2 (manually).
> > >
> > 
> > I appreciate these comments and gather syslinux might be a better
> > solution than grub, and will look into it.
> > 
> > However, I would like to point out that grub (legacy) is still the
> > recommended bootloader solution in the beginner's guide, and in the
> > installer isos. Furthermore, grub legacy is the one in core, whereas
> > grub2 is in extra. I think that it is prematurate to cripple the
> > installation of a bootloader just because it is not maintained
> > upstream, until we have a better replacement. If really grub legacy
> > is bad, then we should phase it out and replace it with a better
> > one, which should be the new default. Why not replace grub legacy
> > with grub2 in the core repository and in the installer?
> > 
> > > Installing grub to a partition is an uncommon setup and used by
> > > few users, Those who really want to install grub to a partition
> > > can do so manually.
> > 
> > Well, that is against the KISS principle. The fact it is uncommon is
> > irrelevant for a distro like Arch, which is not suppose to hide
> > options for their own good (especially when users report having used
> > the partition installation with no problem).
> > 
> > Eric
> 
> my toughts:
> 1) general rule: don't prevent users from doing dumb things, it also
> prevents doing them from smart things. it's not our job to impose
> methods or configurations on users (although we can and should make
> recommendations) AIF is an "enabler", it should enable users to set
> up their system how they want it.  So even if we are aware that
> installing grub in partitions can sometimes give issues, that's not a
> reason to make it extra hard for the user to do it, because
> apparently it does work for some people. We should just put a
> recommendation in the selection menu to prefer the device itself
> instead of a partition, and that the grub install might fail if you
> do it in a partition. 2) saying "if you want this, do it manually"
> defeats the point. 3) I understand Thomas' points, but in reality, I
> agree that having multiple bootloaders (i.e. one in mbr, one in
> partition), can make it easier to deal with distro's that happily
> auto-rewrite bootloader or bootloader configs. 4) I disagree with the
> "Listing all the block devices and partitions becomes hard to read."
> argument. Anyone who wants to install Arch should be at the very
> least mentally capable to deal with such a list.
> 
> 
> Dieter

okay so i'll change aif again so that you can install grub on a partition, though with a note that we don't recommend it.

Btw, does anyone know if you can install grub on a blockdevice (full disk/partition/DM device) which is part of an lvm/softraid setup?

Dieter