[pacman-dev] Maelstrom(Pacman in C#) project brief
Georg Grabler
ggrabler at gmail.com
Mon Jul 23 11:30:48 EDT 2007
I rather tend the other way. Gnome gets the better environment, and by far
more support by commercial distributions. Anyway, the KDE guys are doing a
good job, and i think they might have the state of the most modern DE for
linux again, once KDE4 is released.
I enjoy KDE, since i never could work productively in Gnome. There are a lot
of great tools around for gnome, but i don't care any longer if the tool is
QT or Gnome / GTK, since pierres gave me the hint of qt-curve. I just use
the ones i like better (in this case, Firefox in example).
I don't want a flamewar about the better DE now, both, Gnome and KDE have
their things i prefer and dislike, even XFCE and Enlightenment are quite
good.
I think the people are satisfied with the pacman interface for their
console, and are missing good GUI clients for it. That's why they pay more
attention to Whirlwind, as i do.
Don't get under the wheel, you did a great work on this. As long as it stays
compatible to pacman (keeps updating the pacman database), i don't see a
problem with any kind of gui or client for pacman.
Yours,
Georg
On 7/23/07, Bozhidar Batsov <lordbad at e-card.bg> wrote:
>
> Any feedback is most welcome and I read it all the way no matter how
> long it is. BTW I personally enjoy python very much, but I'm a hardcore
> GNOME user and dislike QT(although I confess that KDE is the better DE
> for the moment). I'm just so used to GTK apps that I can't look at QT
> apps for a long time without my head starting to hurt. It seems to me
> that most people pay more attention to Whirlwind, but I want to assure
> all the command-line addicts(like me) that maelstrom will have a very
> capable console client. Actually I work on it far more than on the
> gui(for now at least).
>
> Best Regards,
> Bozhidar Batsov
>
> Georg Grabler wrote:
> > So go for it.
> > I bet a couple of users will like it, and use it, as they use other
> > projects. I personally also would like it, for the simple reason that
> > i'd have it easier to get people to use arch.
> >
> > I'm thinking about a friend of mine (as well as some guys at work
> > here). He plays one computer game, which has a native linux
> > distribution of the software, which runs perfectly on arch. He'd like
> > to use Linux on his desktop. He's the typical office user (MSN, ICQ,
> > Office, Printing, E-Mail and this Game).
> >
> > Thus, he is a typical windows user, and telling him how the
> > application works is by far easier than giving him the hard truth
> > about linux and commandline.
> >
> > I'll hopefully soon be working again on pyalpm and a pyQT client,
> > hopefully Cx will help me some (or i can help them with their pyQT
> > client project). Havn't had much contact, maybe he's lost in the few
> > lines i wrote, since a lot of them are replaceable by new features the
> > alpm gained in the past month.
> >
> > I'd never say that i wouldn't use the project myself. Maybe i like it
> > in the end, and to be true, i already liked the interface you provided
> > (screenshots).
> >
> > I just want to tell you, of course, a native one always was "cleaner"
> > "nicer" and "sexy", but it definitely re invents the wheel, for the
> > reason that the code will be written twice. Also, maybe you come up
> > with ideas how things could be implemented in pacman, since you seem
> > to have plenty experience, also in c/c++ development.
> >
> > I've chosen pyrex for the same reason as you the native re-write: i
> > didn't like the procedural API interface of alpm - but it gets better
> > every day. Even when i'm currently not working on my projects, i
> > follow the development lists carefully.
> >
> > If you want that project - do it. As i said, a lot of people will
> > appreciate it.
> >
> > Also, why i considered this memory leak things is, that i may would
> > like some background application searching for updates, providing a
> > systray entry if updates are available (as other tools do). Though,
> > this would need a different / faster / less system consuming operation
> > for checking updates (as taking the provided rss feeds), but it would
> > be possible, and a very nice feature.
> >
> > Yours,
> > Georg
> >
> > PS: i know i write too much, hope you even want to read it ;)
> >
> > On 7/23/07, *Bozhidar Batsov* < lordbad at e-card.bg
> > <mailto:lordbad at e-card.bg>> wrote:
> >
> > Georg Grabler wrote:
> > > That's a fine point, Gabriel.
> > > I just thought the same about my servers, by reading your message.
> > >
> > > Especially virtual servers it would take enough space then.
> > >
> > > Arch isn't a focused desktop distribution. Anyway, the team is
> > working
> > > hard to make pacman / alpm better (providing a better interface).
> In
> > > the current state, they work towards to get by default
> > compatible swig
> > > bindings (at least the approach seems to be quite clear and clean,
> > > following the git), what means you can also build your application
> > > upon the alpm binding for C#.
> > >
> > > I also think that re-inventing the wheel isn't what should be
> done,
> > > especially not in such a "small" project. Of course, desktop
> > > environments and applications also often re-invent features.
> > >
> > > What i really appreciate are the features your client seems to
> have.
> > > That's a huge piece of work you've done, and basically what i'd
> > like
> > > to see for pacman. GTK/QT interfaces for the original ALPM, for
> > every
> > > kind of desktop user.
> > >
> > > I've been working some time now on pyalpm to make a compatible
> > client.
> > > I just don't get along, since my work still eats me up, and the
> > > critsit won't end, as it seems.
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > > Georg
> > >
> > > On 7/23/07, *Gabriel C* <nix.or.die at googlemail.com
> > <mailto:nix.or.die at googlemail.com>
> > > <mailto: nix.or.die at googlemail.com
> > <mailto:nix.or.die at googlemail.com>>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bozhidar Batsov wrote:
> > > > VMiklos wrote:
> > > >> Hello,
> > > >>
> > > >> Na Fri, Jul 20, 2007 at 05:40:40PM +0300, Bozhidar Batsov
> > > <lordbad at e-card.bg <mailto:lordbad at e-card.bg>
> > <mailto:lordbad at e-card.bg <mailto:lordbad at e-card.bg>>> pisal(a):
> > > >>
> > > >>> Well I have no intention to fork Arch. I strive to make a
> > > product 100%
> > > >>> compatible with the existing, but I want to offer
> > through it a few
> > > >>> things that are missing in pacman and a couple of newer
> > > technologies. I
> > > >>> don't think that mono is a bad thing just because .NET is
> a
> > > Microsoft
> > > >>> product. After all Miguel de Icaza has stated many times
> > that
> > > if he had
> > > >>> mono 8 years ago there wouldn't be one line of C code in
> > GNOME. I
> > > >>> personally consider it to be a much better framework than
> > > java. Style
> > > >>> and consistency are almost perfect here. Pascal notation
> > for
> > > methods,
> > > >>> camel for vars, great generics, great datatypes,
> security...
> > > >>>
> > > >> let's say you would write this in python or perl, we
> > would have
> > > the same
> > > >> problem: pacman is a lowlevel tool, it should be fast and
> > have
> > > as less
> > > >> deps as possible. mono can be a great tool but are you sure
> > > it's nice to
> > > >> have the whole mono framework in an install cd?
> > > >>
> > > >> - VMiklos
> > > >>
> > >
> > > >>
> > > > Not exactly so. For one thing there are many popular
> programs
> > > build with
> > > > mono today - beagle, f-spot, tomboy, muine and others so
> > you are
> > > likely
> > > > having the framework installed anyway. There are talks
> > that soon
> > > mono
> > > > will be accepted as an official dependency in GNOME.
> > >
> > > All the programs you are talking about are almost broken but
> is
> > > not the point here.
> > >
> > > You think to much about 'installations with an DESKTOP/X'
> > that is.
> > >
> > > *Why* do you think I would install _mono_ ( about 70MB bloat
> > ) on
> > > my _servers_ ?
> > >
> > > Just to run an PM ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Gabriel
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > pacman-dev mailing list
> > > pacman-dev at archlinux.org <mailto:pacman-dev at archlinux.org>
> > <mailto:pacman-dev at archlinux.org <mailto:pacman-dev at archlinux.org>>
> > > http://archlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/pacman-dev
> > > <http://archlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/pacman-dev>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > pacman-dev mailing list
> > > pacman-dev at archlinux.org <mailto:pacman-dev at archlinux.org>
> > > http://archlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/pacman-dev
> > >
> > I don't see how 70MB are so crucial, but everyone has different
> > opinion
> > on every subject. I have 370GB HDD on my home PC, and don't
> > imagine that
> > there are many PC's left with 5GB drives around so 70MB doesn't
> > seen so
> > much. As I previously stated bindings do not reflect the true
> > nature of
> > C# and produce fairly ugly code, so I prefer to do stuff natively.
> On
> > the subject of possible memory leaks on behalf of mono, I'd like
> > to say
> > that this is not an app that runs 24/7(Maelstrom or Whirlwind). A
> > typical session is over for a couple of minutes so there is little
> > danger of leaks as they tend to manifest in longer running apps.
> > And of
> > course the goal of the project is not to reinvent the wheel, but to
> > build a better wheel so out car could run faster and be equiped with
> > more features - for example maelstrom has support for package
> > categories, something which seems to be ignored in arch - they are
> > implemented with filtering regular expressions and are very helpful
> > especially for a GUI client. Color support in the terminal is
> > native, no
> > patches required, and the conf file is scheduled to be enhanced as
> > well
> > with additional options... So these huge 70MB may not go to waste
> > completely in the end...
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pacman-dev mailing list
> > pacman-dev at archlinux.org <mailto:pacman-dev at archlinux.org>
> > http://archlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/pacman-dev
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pacman-dev mailing list
> > pacman-dev at archlinux.org
> > http://archlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/pacman-dev
> >
>
>
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>
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