Well I found out that e17 is responding to an xrandr command in the ~/.xinitrc upon startx... So I don't need to use e17's native screen resolution utility... Thus I can get my 1024x768 screen resolution in an automatic fashion that still lets me log out cleanly... I also installed those AUR e17-themes and "SOME" of them worked. (more or less) Though with most of them, Once I apply them, I can no longer initialize the theme switching tool without a crash. But fortunately I had the forethought to backup the "bad" ~/.e directory which did at least let me make some changes, including using the theme switcher... mc made it easy to copy it back in between e17 test runs. And I found a few themes that do make it easy to see which button has the keyboards focus. Kind of like blingbling does only without having to squint to spot the outline. Two of the best at that are dali41b and japan2007, The latter being more aesthetically pleasing, and I think slightly more stable at letting me make more changes without crashing. But it's clock gadget is not for me. And while it's shape is a little twisted, I CAN read the formers clock. I find that I can add gadgets to the shelf, But if I try to add one to the desktop it crashes. (Fortunately the ones I care about are already there) So while it still isn't quite right, and I still can't use my preferred themes, at least two of the AUR themes are acceptable. And the xrandr workaround works well enough so that I'll manage until the next upgrade anyway... Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions -- | --- ___ | <0> <-> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook | ^ J(tWdy)P | ~\___/~ <<jtwdyp@ttlc.net>>