David, I will try to have some courtesy to you this time. I usually read the mailing list, I don't reply it at all (just when I need to say my opinion) but, trust me, I read at least 70% of the mails of the list... From that 70% that I've read, I see, that you ask _anything_ on the list, so I don't think that you really did a minor research, or your research techniques are wrong, or you pretend that we are here to reply you 24/7. Maybe in this little case, the question that you did, is not detailed on the wiki as you expected, but then let me ask you a question, did you updated the wiki when you didn't found the information and then you got a reply from the list? .. I think no. So don't complain about the lack of the information on the wiki. Wanna an advice? try to don't ask _anything_ and waste the time of the people who usually reply you. Instead, try to research a little more, and then, after hours (yes hours) of researching, *ask*, and eventually the number of questions that you do on this list will decrease and probably you get better replies than a classic RTFM. I don't consider myself as a very-smart-guy-so-i-dont-ask .. but I try to don't ask a lot. It's just my opinion, btw. Good luck. -- Angel Velásquez angvp @ irc.freenode.net Arch Linux Developer / Trusted User Linux Counter: #359909 http://www.angvp.com