[pacman-dev] pacman i18n
Hi everyone, My name is Hugo and i am new in this ML, but i already contribute with pacman's translations to pt_BR. Recently i turned a Arch developer and i am creating a i18n project for it. I would like to integrate all pacman's po files to the project. I would also like to make all the translation process more transparent. The page of the project can be viewed here (i still need to finish some parts): http://hdoria.archlinux-br.org/uploads/arch-i18n/arch-i18n.html I will be moving it to dev.archlinux.org soon. If you take a look on the page you will notice that i also created a .POT file for repo-add (using xgettext). Where is the POT file that you provide? I did not found. I saw that pacman 3.2 is with string freeze and that a call for translators was opened. This is the kind of thing that would fit in this i18n project. How can integrate everything? Thanks. -- Hugo Doria
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Hugo Doria <hugodoria@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
My name is Hugo and i am new in this ML, but i already contribute with pacman's translations to pt_BR.
Recently i turned a Arch developer and i am creating a i18n project for it. I would like to integrate all pacman's po files to the project. I would also like to make all the translation process more transparent.
The page of the project can be viewed here (i still need to finish some parts):
http://hdoria.archlinux-br.org/uploads/arch-i18n/arch-i18n.html
I will be moving it to dev.archlinux.org soon.
If you take a look on the page you will notice that i also created a .POT file for repo-add (using xgettext). Where is the POT file that you provide? I did not found.
I saw that pacman 3.2 is with string freeze and that a call for translators was opened. This is the kind of thing that would fit in this i18n project. How can integrate everything?
Thanks. I can't access you page right now, may use tor for it later, but it's a great news, Is there a i18n/l10n team to discuss/review Arch's under hood i18n/l10n infrastructure, not only the translation?
-- Hugo Doria
_______________________________________________ pacman-dev mailing list pacman-dev@archlinux.org http://archlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/pacman-dev
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:45 AM, 甘露(Lu Gan) <rhythm.gan@gmail.com> wrote:
I can't access you page right now, may use tor for it later, but it's a great news, Is there a i18n/l10n team to discuss/review Arch's under hood i18n/l10n infrastructure, not only the translation?
Not yet, but it is one of the project's goals. We want to improve Arch applications and utilities to support and process different languages. There are some Arch projects that does not support translations yet (the installer, for example) and we want to change this sittuation. -- Hugo
2008/7/16 Hugo Doria <hugodoria@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:45 AM, 甘露(Lu Gan) <rhythm.gan@gmail.com> wrote:
I can't access you page right now, may use tor for it later, but it's a great news, Is there a i18n/l10n team to discuss/review Arch's under hood i18n/l10n infrastructure, not only the translation?
Not yet, but it is one of the project's goals. We want to improve Arch applications and utilities to support and process different languages. There are some Arch projects that does not support translations yet (the installer, for example) and we want to change this sittuation. You got my vote, I am more a translator than a programmer though, I would report bugs that bug me (saying I opened installer i18n support, :-))
-- Hugo
_______________________________________________ pacman-dev mailing list pacman-dev@archlinux.org http://archlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/pacman-dev
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Hugo Doria <hugodoria@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
My name is Hugo and i am new in this ML, but i already contribute with pacman's translations to pt_BR.
Recently i turned a Arch developer and i am creating a i18n project for it. I would like to integrate all pacman's po files to the project. I would also like to make all the translation process more transparent.
The page of the project can be viewed here (i still need to finish some parts):
http://hdoria.archlinux-br.org/uploads/arch-i18n/arch-i18n.html
I will be moving it to dev.archlinux.org soon.
If you take a look on the page you will notice that i also created a .POT file for repo-add (using xgettext). Where is the POT file that you provide? I did not found.
I saw that pacman 3.2 is with string freeze and that a call for translators was opened. This is the kind of thing that would fit in this i18n project. How can integrate everything?
As you saw in Dan's post, he is already hosting the .po files himself for now, and he already has a list of pacman translators, which is also in the git repo : http://projects.archlinux.org/?p=pacman.git;a=blob;f=TRANSLATORS;hb=HEAD In pacman source tree, we have one po/ subdirectory which contains the translation of pacman frontend (src/pacman) and the scripts : makepkg, repo-add and pacman-optimize (scripts), and we have a second lib/libalpm/po subdirectory for translating the libalpm backend (lib/libalpm) I was thinking a while ago about having 3 po dir / files : src/pacman/po : frontend lib/libalpm/po : backend scripts/po : scripts But we decided it was not worth changing. I think that for now, you should not maintain a separate and different list of po files and maintainers, to avoid confusion and duplicated work. And after that, I don't know, we already changed the translation procedure recently, for the 3.1 release, to make it easier for translators. Basically, Dan provides the .po files, the translators pick them, translate and submit to the ML, then our translation lieutenant which was voidnull made a git branch with one commit per translations, and Dan would finally merge this. I guess all the .po files could be hosted on the page of arch-i18n project rather than on Dan's page, but what else are you proposing?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 9:21 AM, Hugo Doria <hugodoria@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
My name is Hugo and i am new in this ML, but i already contribute with pacman's translations to pt_BR.
Recently i turned a Arch developer and i am creating a i18n project for it. I would like to integrate all pacman's po files to the project. I would also like to make all the translation process more transparent.
The page of the project can be viewed here (i still need to finish some parts):
http://hdoria.archlinux-br.org/uploads/arch-i18n/arch-i18n.html
I will be moving it to dev.archlinux.org soon.
If you take a look on the page you will notice that i also created a .POT file for repo-add (using xgettext). Where is the POT file that you provide? I did not found. All these strings should already be in the pacman POT file. As Xavier already said, the current translation layout is one for libalpm, and one for every other "frontend" tool.
I saw that pacman 3.2 is with string freeze and that a call for translators was opened. This is the kind of thing that would fit in this i18n project. How can integrate everything? pacman is one of those things that shouldn't have tight integration with Arch- I have been working on trying to decrease its Arch dependence, not increase it. The translation files for pacman will always remain separate from any other files. Of course, the translators and effort put into this project can hopefully be pooled.
-Dan
Hi, What I want is to have a central place where anyone interested in i18n can have the necessary information to help with this. IMHO this means, for example, have all the POT files of Arch's tools (not only pacman) in one place. I do not want to make pacman more or less dependent of Arch. What I want is that when people think "I want to help translate Arch and its tools" they can find everything they need in one place. Dan can still host the POT files and I can only put a link to them at the i18n project page. I think that have a translators list on the page is important. This facilitates communication and can prevent someone translate something that is already being translated. I think that a good communication between the i18n project and pacman is also essential. A notice of future dates of string freeze, for example. Things will be easier now that I am a member of this ML. As I spoke, the i18n project has several goals and help with pacman translations is only part of this (an important one). I just want to make life easier for translators. I do not want, in any way, hinder, obstruct or cause any change in pacman's development. Well, i am open to suggestions on how this integration can work or whether we should forget this idea. -- Hugo Doria
While I do not think that pacman's current translation process should be changed, I welcome any other approach towards i18n/l10n. If you can come up with a POT file for the installer, just count me in for the German version. Of course, this means that several small files must be added to the images, so nothing could be done without the consent of Simo or others. Another point which has been discussed often over the last two years on this list was translating man-pages. This has always been considered a good idea with very little priority. So I decided to do some stuff before bringing this issue up again, asked for help in the German forums (which I received) and set up a project on my own. Like the pacman devs, we are using asciidoc to produce html and groff versions. The first will allow us to mirror the entire archlinux.org/pacman page at archlinux.de, to link directly to German versions from our wiki, etc. The second is intended for building a locally installable packages at a later date (with the appropriate form still needing to be discussed). I have not worked much on that recently, but is fair to say that all the hard work has already done. The files are badly in need of corrections und updates, though. Entire project history is here, btw: http://git.archlinux.de/cgit.cgi?url=mpg/log/ Maybe it is still not to late to get a first version online jointly with pacman 3.2. Best regards, Matt
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:10 PM, Matthias Gorissen <matthias@archlinux.de> wrote:
While I do not think that pacman's current translation process should be changed, I welcome any other approach towards i18n/l10n. If you can come up with a POT file for the installer, just count me in for the German version. Of course, this means that several small files must be added to the images, so nothing could be done without the consent of Simo or others.
I made a patch for the installer. It *probably* will be translatable soon. Please, take a look here: http://archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-dev-public/2008-July/006898.html http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/10425 Simo need to do some clean on the code. I am just waiting him to patch the installer again. There will be no radical change in the pacman's translating process. Dan can still host the files and voinull stays with his part, for example. It's just a question of integration and this involves news, information and instructions for the translation process. These are just ideas and I am open to suggestions. BTW, i liked the idea of translate the man-pages. I will take a look at this later. -- Hugo
Am Mittwoch 16 Juli 2008 20:08:11 schrieb Hugo Doria:
I made a patch for the installer. It *probably* will be translatable soon. Please, take a look here:
http://archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-dev-public/2008-July/006898.html http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/10425
Simo need to do some clean on the code. I am just waiting him to patch the installer again.
Thank you, as an occasional lurker on dev-public, I missed that.
BTW, i liked the idea of translate the man-pages. I will take a look at this later.
I forgot to mention that there is already a similar project in France: http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?do_Details=1&ID=11180 Best regards, Matt
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Hugo Doria <hugodoria@gmail.com> wrote:
Dan can still host the POT files and I can only put a link to them at the i18n project page. I think that have a translators list on the page is important. This facilitates communication and can prevent someone translate something that is already being translated.
Dan already host all pot and po files, he already gave a link to them and to translation instructions in the string freeze announcement : http://archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2008-July/018245.html While I am perfectly sure you only have good intentions, and the page looks pretty cool, the content is currently not so nice. It provides different pot files and different instructions than the pacman project. I am worried someone could fall on that and start translating from scratch a file that is already translated. It also shows an incomplete and different list of translators for pacman and libalpm. For a project like the installer which has currently no translations, that is all good. For a project like pacman which already has translations and a way to deal with them, you should either simply give links, or integrate the same contents, information and instructions. Starting something in parallel for this kind of stuff does not do any good in my opinion. Though don't believe I am angry or anything, I am simply trying to explain why I think the current page should be changed.
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 4:13 AM, Xavier <shiningxc@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 5:58 PM, Hugo Doria <hugodoria@gmail.com> wrote:
Dan can still host the POT files and I can only put a link to them at the i18n project page. I think that have a translators list on the page is important. This facilitates communication and can prevent someone translate something that is already being translated.
Dan already host all pot and po files, he already gave a link to them and to translation instructions in the string freeze announcement : http://archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2008-July/018245.html
While I am perfectly sure you only have good intentions, and the page looks pretty cool, the content is currently not so nice. It provides different pot files and different instructions than the pacman project. I am worried someone could fall on that and start translating from scratch a file that is already translated. It also shows an incomplete and different list of translators for pacman and libalpm.
For a project like the installer which has currently no translations, that is all good. For a project like pacman which already has translations and a way to deal with them, you should either simply give links, or integrate the same contents, information and instructions. Starting something in parallel for this kind of stuff does not do any good in my opinion.
Though don't believe I am angry or anything, I am simply trying to explain why I think the current page should be changed.
I have to side with Xavier here. Furthermore, I/we always liked to think of pacman as a "non-Arch specific" project. That is, it's attempted to be developed in a way such that other distros can actually use it, and not just Arch. So integrating translations into an Arch specific project is kinda breaking that separation
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 6:13 AM, Xavier <shiningxc@gmail.com> wrote:
While I am perfectly sure you only have good intentions, and the page looks pretty cool, the content is currently not so nice. It provides different pot files and different instructions than the pacman project. I am worried someone could fall on that and start translating from scratch a file that is already translated. It also shows an incomplete and different list of translators for pacman and libalpm.
The list was incomplete because I'm still finishing the page. Now i already added almost all translators, including those who were in the PO headers, but not in Dan's mail. I agree that the links should point to the Dan's host. I already updated them. As I spoke before I do not want to change any translation process in pacman and, even less, do something parallel. I just want to concentrate the necessary information for it in one single place. I've updated the page and I think now things are going the right way. Please, take a second look: http://dev.archlinux.org/~hugo/arch-i18n/ I am open to more suggestions. Thanks. -- Hugo
participants (6)
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Aaron Griffin
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Dan McGee
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Hugo Doria
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Matthias Gorissen
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Xavier
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甘露(Lu Gan)