[arch-general] conclusion: Another rant on arch way abuse and false promises

[Thomas Bächler]

Arvid Picciani schrieb:
> Thanks to enough input i have learned two things of this thread:
> 
> 1) The problem IS upstream related. Some packages do enable
>    dbus when it is available, for the convenience of those users
>    who do not understand what dbus is and hence need it.

So every user who wants to use dbus is dumb? Needing dbus is a criterion 
for not understanding what it is? dbus is something very cool and useful 
and allows applications to conveniently interoperate, which is something 
that has to happen in every modern computing environment.

>    Archs philosophy dictates, that if the upstream is retarded,
>    so shall be the package. I used this as argument, and i shall
>    comply to it equally.

In a sense yes, but we can make it less retarded to some extent.

> 2) I am in fact the minority, not those who see linux
>    as a free windows copy. Hence i should

Insult number one, watch your step.

>     2.1) stfu and obey the will of the mass
>     2.2) find or found a distro that
>          is not based on the will of the mass

Arch is not based on the will of the mass, but on the will of the 
developers who use and develop it. Those developers happen to want cool 
systems instead of feature-free ones.
And you know what? I don't see your problem, because my system works 
just fine and does everything I want it to exactly like I want it to. 
For me, nothing else counts.

> The combination of 1 and 2 invalidates everything
> i have said in this thread.

No, some of the things you have said are invalidated by them being just 
rants and stupid.

> Jan did a great job at packaging clearly broken packages
> in the least harmful 

He did, yes.

> way for the majority of users,
> who happen to have a microsoft windows background.

Insult number two. I give you one piece of advice: Apologize for being 
an asshole. Resorting to calling what you don't like the "Ubuntu way of 
doing things" and calling the majority of Arch's developers "people with 
Windows background" doesn't help you here. In fact, I feel personally 
insulted by these statements.

You can either apologize to me now or STFU and get yourself another 
distro - preferably one whose developers like being insulted like this. 
It is one thing to discuss the sense and nonsense of how we do things. 
It is another to be an asshole about it and insult the people who do not 
share your opinion. And there is one thing that Arch definitely does not 
need: assholes.


And before people start bitching about what I just said: Statements like 
"Arch is becoming Ubuntu" and "Arch is for users who want a free Windows 
replacement" (and many similar ones) are made mostly because someone is 
out of arguments and wants to make the other end of the discussion angry 
(which Arvid succeeded in). I consider such statements an insult (not 
because Ubuntu or Windows are evil, but because Arch is very different 
from either of those and I am quite proud of that) and I will not 
tolerate such statements.

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