[arch-general] OT: [arch-dev-public] polkit package upgrade patch

[Heiko Baums]

Am Sat, 11 Aug 2012 00:56:33 +0200
schrieb Tom Gundersen <teg at jklm.no>:

> This is not the right mailinglist for this issue. And this certainly
> is not the right thread for it.

This is the right mailing list for this issue, because downstream is
also affected by this. And it is also downstream's decision whether to
ship systemd or not. And you do it by forcing all that systemd stuff
like systemd-tools and all those service files on every user if he
wants to have systemd on his system or not.

So this IS the right mailing list.

> You are free to reimplement all those tools and ship a competing
> package. The configuration formats are well-documented, so it should
> not be hard.

Why would I? There are tools which are working. Systemd is still not
working. For cryptsetup there was and currently still is a working code
in initscripts. So principally no need to use some systemd-tools for
this. And this code covered a lot more use cases than systemd-cryptsetup
originally. And I know this code, because I have written at least most
part of this code.

The syntax could indeed a bit more clearer, but that could have been
done without systemd-cryptsetup.

What about all the already existing tools, someone else recently
mentioned here on the list? Still no word about them. Still no
discussion it they are sufficient or probably better than systemd.

> What are you talking about? No one forgot anything. This is what
> happened: You pointed out a feature that initsrcipts used to have
> which systemd-cryptsetup lacked, (on the same day) I posted a patch to
> implement the feature you requested, and asked for feedback (which you
> didn't give), one week later I posted the patch upstream and (on the
> same day) Lennart replied: "Applied." The functionality should now be
> part of systemd 188, which is in testing. What more could you possibly
> ask for?

Just simple. I ask for first thinking about use cases and about
reliability before writing such a tool and before trying to make it a
de facto standard. I ask for thinking about professional users and
their usage. And I ask for firstly learning about professional computer
usage and about UNIX and the UNIX principle. And first of all I mean
Lennart Poettering in this case. That's only one point.

I, btw., also mentioned that you filed a bug report about this
particular issue to upstream and that it is hopefully fixed. But
nevertheless it shows that systemd was not complete, and that the
systemd developer didn't think enough before releasing it, exactly like
PulseAudio.

> I have the impression that you don't have a clue what you are talking
> about.

And all those people who criticise PA, systemd and Lennart Poettering,
too, have also no clue about what they are talking? All those people who
mark those comments in several other forums totally green and who send
comments in which they agree have also no clue? They are all stupid?
And only you have the necessary knowledge? And only you are the wisdom
in person? Is this what you want to say?

I have the impression that you are one of those systemd fanboys, and
just don't want to hear that systemd and PA have a lot of serious
issues.

And like I said in another thread, we're not talking about some fancy
stuff like installing a GTK theme or the like. We're talking about
serious and important, system relevant stuff.

Btw., still no word about the reasons, why there are regularly so many
and so long discussions about PA, systemd and Lennart Poettering, and
not only here on this mailing list, but everywhere on the web. Still no
word why those many, long discussions only appear about PA, systemd
and Lennart Poettering and not about any other piece of software.

You really should start thinking about this. And you should start soon.
You really should take off your rose-colored glasses.

> Why don't you just delete the things you don't want?

Why are those things, which I don't need and want, installed? Why
am I forced to have this systemd stuff installed? And what, if I delete
them manually? Shall I always delete them again and again after every
system update? Sorry, that's not the way to go.

Like I said before, if you would support systemd, sytemd-tools and
everything else related to systemd totally optional, and keep
initscripts pure initscripts without any systemd stuff like it was
before, I would say nothing. But since you really force the users to
install this systemd stuff, you will have to live with such comments,
and not only from me, as you should know.

Heiko