[arch-general] Newbies in Arch [WAS: Suspend seems not to work with nVidia Nouveau driver]

[Don Juan]

On 01/03/2012 07:25 PM, Jonathan Vasquez wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Oon-Ee Ng<ngoonee.talk at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 10:58 AM, Jonathan Vasquez
>> <jvasquez1011 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> I've been doing things to attract users to Arch. Whether they are
>>> newbs or not, because I want people to learn. As long as you have
>>> willingness and determination to learn, that is the important thing.
>>> The resources are out there, people just need to look, and I'm willing
>>> to add to those resources.
>>>
>>> You aren't adding anything beneficial by telling others that their
>>> comments are equal to troll statements, when this is clearly not true.
>> Attracting users to Arch is not a stated goal, this has been repeated
>> many times in various fora. Arch is only for a certain type of users,
>> those who are willing and able to learn.
>>
>> I'm not knocking your effort, but a quick glance at those resources
>> you've provided indicate that you're trying to make it very easy to
>> get to using Arch, and I don't think that's beneficial for Arch or its
>> community. There are other distributions for 'easy-to-use', Arch
>> should not be that. Not because of any type of elitism, but because
>> Arch's niche is about control and simplicity, and making it
>> 'newbie-friendly' (whatever that means) would compromise that.
>>
>> Splitting the thread (sorry I use gmail, so it won't split for you
>> guys on mutt or whatever) to reduce the 'corruption' of original
>> thread, not that I think it'll make a difference though.
> You are misunderstanding my goals and what I've said.
>
> I said that I'm trying to help people find and use Arch. Whether they
> are expert users from other distros, or they are Noobies who are
> "willing to read documentation". If a person is a noob, that doesn't
> mean that they can't use Arch, they just have to be motivated
> individuals who are willing to seek and learn for themselves. I am
> facilitating resources, documentations, etc, to lower the barrier to
> entry, while at the same time giving information that is in the
> documentation, in a video form.
>
> So we completely agree, the point of Arch, and us, isn't to just go
> around and find noobies that don't want to learn for themselves but
> want others to do the work for them, but to find people that are
> willing to learn, seek for themselves, and contribute back to the
> community. This does not segregate "Noobs who want others to do things
> for them", "Noobs who are willing to be independent and learn for
> themselves", and "Expert users from other Distros who want to learn
> how to use Arch".
>
Me being one of these Arch n00bs what attracted to me was the RTFM type 
of attitude before you ask something it should be about reading and 
educating ones self first before asking questions. It took me a few days 
to understand installing things properly and only posting one question 
to these boards about a miss understanding I had. Which I though the 
responses I got were great and quickly made me grasp my failure to. I 
learned a little more about the hooks statement that was made, but I do 
have to agree that if others are not allowed to contribute they have the 
same issues with a posting to the boards, then things may lag in finding 
a common cause that may not be obvious on the one single system. Am I 
way off thinking such a thing here?

I also still don't see how his comments were Troll like at all. Maybe 
that's my n00b thinking in things. Elitism is one thing, but arrogance 
is childish and VERY common on most message boards in the Linux world. I 
value and understand Elitism, but throw in arrogance and its just a 
pissing match being started in my opinion. Just my worthless .02 :)

Cheers people its a New Year, don't forget that :)