[arch-general] Alternative init system proposal

LoneVVolf lonewolf at xs4all.nl
Mon Feb 15 22:57:24 UTC 2016

On 15-02-16 16:54, João Miguel wrote:
> A 2016-02-14T23:13:44 +0100, LoneVVolf escreveu:
>> On 14-02-16 17:17, João Miguel wrote:
>>> Then I shall contact Artoo and add the packages back to the AUR as Nous
>>> suggested. Though I don't see how a repository officially trusted by
>>> Manjaro is less trusted than the AUR. Nevertheless, I do like the AUR, and
>>> packages being there might help. Have a good day, João Miguel
>> Not long ago Artoo renamed his manjaro packages to openrc without any
>> discusssion with apg or apg openrc users.
> It was after he was asked to remove his pakages from the AUR and after a
> discussion in the Manjaro forums
I guess you mean the discussion here: 
https://forum.manjaro.org/index.php?topic=27333.0 ?

Everyone (interested) can read that and draw their own conclusion about 
what happened.
personally, i'm ok with "agreeing to disagree" on that subject.

>> Before artoo packages can be put back in AUR, that naming conflict needs to
>> be solved.
> FWIW, there are currently at least 13 packages in the AUR (found by
> searching and reading PKGBUILDs) from different people that install init
> scripts to /etc/init.d and not Apg's /etc/openrc/init.d.
>> Even if that naming conflict were resolved, the division in the small AL
>> openrc community would continue to exist.
> I think the easiest way to unite efforts would be to forget /etc/openrc.
> I see that you want to avoid a conflict with initscripts, but if you
> installed to /etc as Artoo, you'd be closer to upstream (Gentoo). I'm ok
> with any directory, but I don't see the point in using /etc/openrc; who
> uses both initscripts-fork and openrc, except for testing purposes?
> Maybe you could change the default of that SYSCONFDIR variable to /etc,
> and have the rare users of both systems change it to /etc/openrc (they
> could get a warning in a post-install file or something like that).
>> Maybe the AL users wanting to remove systemd completely could investigate if
>> switching from openrc artoo way to openrc apg way is possible ?
> I wouldn't put it off the chart, but note that users in Manjaro and
> those of systemd-free.org already have binaries for Artoo's way, so a
> middle ground between the ways, starting with identifying the
> differences and figuring which way is best for each of those, would be
> preferred IMHO.
using /etc/openrc makes it easy to use multiple init systems on 1 
machine, i think that is a good thing.
There is another good reason for it though :
Let's assume at some point in the future an arch developer or TU 
considers adding openrc/udev-alternatives to community repo.
They will look into the existing packages and check if they are high 
enough quality.

 From arch packaging standards :
*Configuration files* should be placed in the |/etc| directory. If there 
is more than one configuration file, it is customary to *use a 
subdirectory* in order to keep the |/etc| area as clean as possible. Use 
|/etc/{pkgname}/| where |{pkgname}| is the name of the package (or a 
suitable alternative, eg, apache uses |/etc/httpd/|).

I feel in this specific case following arch packaging standards is more 
important then using the same path for configuration files as gentoo.

I've checked recent openrc init.d servicefiles, and it appears they work 
fine in any location provided openrc can find them.
If artoo way users want to stick to using /etc :
we can use an environment variable, say _OPENRC_SYSCONFDIR .
the openrc packages could set this var to the correct location.
Packages providing additional openrc services can then use that var to 
determine where they should install the files.
That would allow sharing of servicefiles.

>> Lone_Wolf
>> Active user of openrc apg way
>> co-maintainer of apg openrc (since this weekend)
> Thank you for you efforts in maintaining an alternative, they are very
> much appreciated.
> Regards,
> João Miguel
Thank you.
Your posts in this thread convinced me it was worth the effort to re-try 
to bring artoo & apg way closer together.


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