[arch-general] `base` group replaced by mandatory `base` package - manual intervention required

Ralf Mardorf silver.bullet at zoho.com
Fri Oct 11 08:55:42 UTC 2019


IMO it's a good idea that the Arch developers want to rework "base",
but IMO the result is a bit overdone. Don't get me wrong, I can live
with the current base package, if the developers like it, it's ok for

However, I do understand that users are surprised that even vi/m is

My contribution to the bike shed:

On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 21:26:26 -0400, Eli Schwartz via arch-general wrote:
>vi (required by the POSIX User Portability option, commonly assumed to
>be "the text editor you have even when you don't have anything else")

It _is_ or at least vim is, without doubts the editor most
users, including the emacs users, expect as _the_ basic default editor.
There obviously is a reason that some commands were named non-neutral,
such as "visudo". While I'm in favour of nano for _simple_ editing, I
don't expect that nano is installed, but I expect that vi/m is
installed on even a minimal BSD or Linux install and I expect manual
pages. Nano and mcedit are probably the most wanted "user-friendly"
editors for _simple_ editing needs, but almost all users are able
to handle vi/m, too, it just beeps a little bit, when inexperienced with
using vi/m. GUI editors are probably irrelevant for a base install. IMO
excluding manual pages and vi/m from a base install is unwise. That
"less" is excluded is bizarre. I do understand that something such as
"reiserfsprogs" and even "linux" is excluded, but there seems to be no
rational reason for excluding "less". Is really anybody annoyed, if
installing "less" is enforced? Could installing "less" make an install
unnecessary bloated? especially if an editor is missing, "less"
probably is a much wanted feature ;).

But again, I can live with the current base package, if the developers
like it, it's ok for me. By one way or another I anyway need to install
a lot of packages, that without doubts don't belong to "base", next
time I just need to install a few additional packages.


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