[arch-general] `base` group replaced by mandatory `base` package - manual intervention required

[Storm Dragon]

Howdy,

I wonder if there shouldn't be two base packages. maybe a base-minimal for containers, and a base like the original. I worry that the new method will be confusing for people coming to Arch for the first time, and it kind of makes things a bit more strenuous for the bare metal user.

Of course, this could just be because I am used to the old way. Will be interesting to see what happens.

Thanks,
Storm

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 05:20:46PM +0200, Arch Linux General wrote:
>On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 11:33:51 +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
>>Hi Ralf,
>>
>>> An editor is a fundamental tool
>>
>>Yes, but stepping back a bit... do you accept that neither a text
>>editor, or less(1), are required on a minimal install that's just being
>>used as a base for producing a specialised install for a particular
>>task, as used in a container?
>>
>>I'm unclear if you're arguing what should be in an add-on-to-base
>>package for typical interactive use, or that the concept of stripping
>>back base is wrong and should be reverted.
>>
>
>Hi Ralph,
>
>first of all, the package "base" as is, is ok for me.
>
>_If_ the developers _would_ ask the Arch users, what packages to include
>again, I would at least vote for "less", "vim" and manual pages.
>
>If I run a Linux in a container, this Linux does not need a kernel, but
>actually "less" and an editor are needed by me...
>
>[root at archlinux moonstudio]# systemd-nspawn -bq
>[root at moonstudio ~]# uname -r; lsb_release -d
>5.3.5-arch1-1-ARCH
>Description:	Ubuntu 16.04.6 LTS
>[root at moonstudio ~]# less /etc/apt/sources.list
>[snip]
>[root at moonstudio ~]# visudo
>[snip]
>
>...excluding the kernel, let alone packages to support exotic file
>systems, IMO is useful. I want the mainline kernel, even while most of
>the times I'm running real-time patched kernels, but I agree that the
>kernel should be optional.
>
>Removing the man pages, IOW the documentation by default is a very bad
>idea, since this is one of the benefits of BSD and Linux over opaque
>operating systems.
>
>I guess for special minimized installs users want to install
>something like BusyBox and remove man pages, as well as header files
>and even something like "grep" and other that are replaced by BusyBox,
>but such special cases IMO should not be reflected by a base install.
>
>That's my opinion, IOW next time I will install the base package and
>at least add "less", "vim", "nano" [1] and the man page related
>packages.
>
>Regards,
>Ralf
>
>[1]
>$ grep EDIT .bashrc
>export EDITOR="nano"
>
>"vim" because it's the lowest common denominator and "nano" because
>it's easier to use for simple editing. For advanced editing I'm in
>favour of a GUI editor. A lot of other users are probably even in favour
>of an IDE.

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