[arch-general] `base` group replaced by mandatory `base` package - manual intervention required

William Bevans degg444 at gmail.com
Fri Oct 11 15:34:10 UTC 2019

I agree with you, I think having two base packages works well as it will
help people who want an small container install but also people who just
want a normal install.

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 10:31 AM Storm Dragon via arch-general <
arch-general at archlinux.org> wrote:

> Howdy,
> I wonder if there shouldn't be two base packages. maybe a base-minimal for
> containers, and a base like the original. I worry that the new method will
> be confusing for people coming to Arch for the first time, and it kind of
> makes things a bit more strenuous for the bare metal user.
> Of course, this could just be because I am used to the old way. Will be
> interesting to see what happens.
> Thanks,
> Storm
> On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 05:20:46PM +0200, Arch Linux General wrote:
> >On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 11:33:51 +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> >>Hi Ralf,
> >>
> >>> An editor is a fundamental tool
> >>
> >>Yes, but stepping back a bit... do you accept that neither a text
> >>editor, or less(1), are required on a minimal install that's just being
> >>used as a base for producing a specialised install for a particular
> >>task, as used in a container?
> >>
> >>I'm unclear if you're arguing what should be in an add-on-to-base
> >>package for typical interactive use, or that the concept of stripping
> >>back base is wrong and should be reverted.
> >>
> >
> >Hi Ralph,
> >
> >first of all, the package "base" as is, is ok for me.
> >
> >_If_ the developers _would_ ask the Arch users, what packages to include
> >again, I would at least vote for "less", "vim" and manual pages.
> >
> >If I run a Linux in a container, this Linux does not need a kernel, but
> >actually "less" and an editor are needed by me...
> >
> >[root at archlinux moonstudio]# systemd-nspawn -bq
> >[root at moonstudio ~]# uname -r; lsb_release -d
> >5.3.5-arch1-1-ARCH
> >Description:   Ubuntu 16.04.6 LTS
> >[root at moonstudio ~]# less /etc/apt/sources.list
> >[snip]
> >[root at moonstudio ~]# visudo
> >[snip]
> >
> >...excluding the kernel, let alone packages to support exotic file
> >systems, IMO is useful. I want the mainline kernel, even while most of
> >the times I'm running real-time patched kernels, but I agree that the
> >kernel should be optional.
> >
> >Removing the man pages, IOW the documentation by default is a very bad
> >idea, since this is one of the benefits of BSD and Linux over opaque
> >operating systems.
> >
> >I guess for special minimized installs users want to install
> >something like BusyBox and remove man pages, as well as header files
> >and even something like "grep" and other that are replaced by BusyBox,
> >but such special cases IMO should not be reflected by a base install.
> >
> >That's my opinion, IOW next time I will install the base package and
> >at least add "less", "vim", "nano" [1] and the man page related
> >packages.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Ralf
> >
> >[1]
> >$ grep EDIT .bashrc
> >export EDITOR="nano"
> >
> >"vim" because it's the lowest common denominator and "nano" because
> >it's easier to use for simple editing. For advanced editing I'm in
> >favour of a GUI editor. A lot of other users are probably even in favour
> >of an IDE.
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