[aur-general] Someone hug sergej

Grigorios Bouzakis grbzks at gmail.com
Wed Dec 3 02:33:34 EST 2008

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 8:31 AM, w9ya <w9ya at qrparci.net> wrote:
> Okay Greg a few easy questions I am happy to answer for you;
> - Um, the freedom of the AUR is because of the freedom in the entire TU
> system (aur is a part of it). If you remove some freedom from one, then you
> risk the same freedom in the other. That *IS* human nature and the way
> things tend to work. So I wil ask you to please explain how making the
> community repo "more official" will help you ? Please be specific as I am
> just not following you at the moment. I do not see what is broken.
> - I am not unhappy with ANYONE's commitment or how much they are getting
> done. But I do take seriously some of the outbursts about who is doing what
> AND making the TUs more responsive to the aurvotes and so forth. NO ONE
> should have to listen to such things when it is so simple to become a TU and
> spend time on a packaging solution. I hope you understand that I do not
> expect you or anyone to do ANYTHING but use archlinux and interact when you
> have a problem of some sort. So, yeah I am fine with you. And you have not
> called me names and even more ugly things.

Freedom. You have the freedom to do anything want and you choose to help
only yourself from what i can see. And please dont take all i say personally.
I am only judging people's actions and how i think they reflect and
affect others.
To the majority to be a bit more specific.
>From what i can see from your packages, leaving out google-earth and
the ones you
are particularly interested i cannot say you actually maintain any of them.
eg. http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=15103
and these are the ones that are supposed to be the more poular ones
although you dont like the voting system.
Such low quality scripts/packages dont exist in any official repository.

How do you expect others to respect your right to freedom when you act this way?
If you were more fair with how you dealt with the power you have in
your hands noone
would complain. At least not so loud.

The voting system is far from perfect, it sucks big time really if you ask me.
I estimate around half of the people who voted on packages dont use
Archlinux anymore.
and you can also tell that from your own packages to which i posted
the links above.
I dont think anyone really uses them anymore.
But pkgstats is by far better. Maybe it should be included to the
installer like it
happens in Debian, and maybe its more appropriate for a relatively
small distribution
like Archlinux.
But these are the only kind of measures that exist.
If you can think of a better one, even the idea on its own would value

> - Yes users are ALWAYS VERY IMPORTANT, including the ones that do NOT vote.
> The problem is that a user has to understand enough about archlinux to get
> ahold of aurvotes and yaourt and manage to install them, and we forget how
> hard this process can be compared to simply installing it and using the
> binary repos. The ham radio community seeks solutions to problems adn quite
> frankly arch is a good solution, but asking them to vote and so forth is NOT
> a good solution to seeing their use represented as it is quite a bit of
> additional work to just vote on something. Heck most of the users of arch
> are not even registered users, let alone voters.
IMO not ALL users are important. The ones who take part to NOTHING Archlinux
related are worth less than the ones who do. There are exceptions but this is a
general rule.
What i really dont get i why cant you host those packages elsewhere and still
use the Archlinux repos for everything else. An unofficial repository like you
maintained before the AUR thing started. In fact, what got AUR started
to be exact.
Why do you need to host those packages in [community]?
I have a wild guess but i dont want to offend you so i will keep it to
myself. :)

> - As far as the developers having a say in this. Heck they can say the deal
> is off and it is time to kill the TU experiment. I am actually o.k. with
> that, as it would be intellectually honest. Instead we are asking for the
> dope on what is wrong and in the past two days have found out it was NOT the
> immediate need of a resources problem we were told it was. In fact we found
> out essentially the opposite. No problems there. We are also being told
> about future fixes in store with NO indication of what they might be and
> what they are. I am concerned because I understand human nature. I make my
> living predicting short and long term effects of policy decisions. And I
> make a **good** living at it. And this failure to disclose what the devs are
> contemplating and telling us will be in our future is sad. More especially
> since the TU system is NOT theirs to do so with. If it was the rest of the
> distro, I would not complain about these last few weeks because it would not
> be my place to complain about their repo.
> And yes, the prime movers in this proposal ARE the devs. You allude to that,
> and you are right.

Dont you think its logical they react that way? The distribution is growing,
and its growing fast. And, the way i see it, there needs to be quality
among with
the quantity which is a goal more or less already achieved.
You are making their efforts seem not as worth while as they should.
I dont think any of the developers wants to kill "the TU experiment".
Hell, most of them where TUs before becoming developers. some still are.
They just  want the TU's to function  as well as possible, after a
model that has proven
to be more successful than the anarchy model that currently runs on [community].
Sadly, you (the TU's) have proven that you are not capable of getting
the best results
from the resources you got.
What i also dont get is how you fail to see the problem. Cause when
there are even
half as many packages in unsupported everyone agrees they are more used than far
too many packages in community, there is problem. The repository
doesnt serve its
purpose. & there need to be some rules. Sad but true. & also what you
would expect
if you take into consideration of what Archlinux stands for today and
how big it is.
I dont think you can blame the developers for anything other than
stealing the best
of your resources. But thats the way the Archlinux develop model works.
If they wanted to "kill" you they could just say, We cant host
community anymore,
go find some other playground and stuff.
But the question is: are you capable of doing that? And moreover
without the developers
Its up to you to prove them wrong...


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