[aur-general] TU application: Laszlo Papp

[Stefan Husmann]

Heiko Baums schrieb:
> Well, I'm not a TU, and can't vote, but keep in mind, what a TU is,
> what TU means and what a TU's task is.
> 
> I don't want to offend Laszlo, and I'm probably doing him wrong.
> 
> I guess you TUs know this anyway, but let me say it anyhow.
> 
> Trusted User doesn't mean, he likes Arch Linux - I like it, too -, he
> likes to contribute to Arch Linux and to the community. Trusted User
> means, that this user is completely trustworthy and that this user can
> be completely trusted especially in security-related stuff. 

I must say I am really shocked about that statement. What makes you think so? 
do you have a technical problem with one of his packages?

> There are
> so many doubts about Laszlo, that I don't think, that he is really
> trustworthy. I, too, have my doubts about it. And keep in mind, that
> not only other TUs but also every other normal user must trust a TU.

I that would be true, we cannot have any TUs. There may always exist a user 
who is paranoid about any specific person. These doubts should not be 
published on mailing lists if there is no concrete case that has happend. 
Also, even if there is a concrete case, we are humans and make mistakes.
And we are able and willing to correct them, to learn and not to do them again.

> The task of a TU is not to maintain a few - maybe 300 - packages in
> AUR. This can do every user. Writing documentations in the Wiki can
> also be done by every normal user. And every normal user can help other
> people in the forums.

Sure can these things be done by any user. But one of the latest applicances 
was done because someone was very helpful on AUR bug day. And it turned out 
that he is a very good TU. 
 
> Btw., I don't know, why someone needs to maintain or at least
> contribute 300 packages in or to AUR. Most of them - except of about 2
> or 3 - are vim plugins anyway. 

so what?

> I only maintain a few packages I need
> myself, so that I can test them, before I upload them to AUR. I don't
> think, that I could do it with 300 packages.

That point has been often discussed. Noone uses so much packages on adaily basis. 
But if every TU only maintains packages he or she actually uses, we would have, 
let's say, about 200 or 300 packages in [community]. I am quite sure there would 
be an outcry if we stop maintaining [community]-packages we do not use often. 

> 
> The task of a TU is especially maintaining and compiling packages in
> the community binary repository and to do administrative and security
> related stuff in the AUR like orphaning packages etc. A TU needs to be
> able to write working and trustworthy PKGBUILDs, and a TU needs some
> more than only basic scripting skills, because some applications need
> PKGBUILDs which are not quite trivial, the people - every Arch Linux
> user - rely on and trust the binary repositories in terms of security
> and stability. I don't see this with Laszlo.

Why not? He is kernel developer! Where do you see "only basic scripting skills"?

> Particularly see the symlink thing in his PKGBUILD for the library. 

What do you mean?

> If
> he was a Gentoo user for more than a year - I was one for about 6 years
> -, he should know, that a library doesn't have to be symlinked to keep
> or get reverse dependencies compatible to updated libraries. See
> revdep-rebuild, which every Gentoo user knows only too well. Symlinking
> a library can only be a quick and dirty workaround locally on one PC
> until the reverse depedency is rebuilt or fixed. If such a symlink is
> needed by another package, than he should file a feature request to
> upstream. So this shows me, that Laszlo doesn't have enough scripting
> and packaging skills, at least not enough to be able to build and
> maintain packages in a semi-official binary repository, which every
> user trusts.

We can discuss this point, but can a single package destroy trusts in a person? 
The majority of Laszlo's packages give me the impression that his skills are 
good enough. If you find one that is bad, make suggestions how it can be made 
better, but do not say you do not trust him.

> 
> I also read his comment in the forums, which Xyne posted here.
> 
> Well the "Welcome to the forum" can be seen friendly. But then he
> writes "We must realize whether...", and just repeats, what Allan has
> already written. For me it sounds as he feels like already being a
> developer, or that he wants to presume to be one. I don't know Laszlo's
> intention, and I can do him wrong, but somehow it looks like craving
> for recognition, there are at least doubts.
> 
> So I don't know, if I could trust him enough.
> 
> 

Well, you will never know. You cannot look into someones head. I cannot see 
any reasons to not trust Laszlo's willingness and skills to be a good TU. 

Sorry for the long reply.

Regards Stefan