[aur-general] TU application: Laszlo Papp

Heiko Baums lists at baums-on-web.de
Sat Aug 1 21:11:43 EDT 2009

Am Sun, 02 Aug 2009 01:23:37 +0200
schrieb Stefan Husmann <stefan-husmann at t-online.de>:

> I must say I am really shocked about that statement. What makes you
> think so? do you have a technical problem with one of his packages?

Shocked? Hmmm... That was not my intention. Ok, maybe I was a bit too
exaggerated. How do I come out of this thing? ;-) I know, not at
all. :-)

I hadn't installed his packages, yet. And actually I don't mean him
personally. I just wanted to stress out, that a TU includes the word
trusted, and I don't know, if somebody can be trusted enough, if there
are too many doubts about him as it was mentioned by other people here
in the mailing list.

> I that would be true, we cannot have any TUs.

Why? Well, I don't know any TUs personally. But what I realized
since I'm using Arch Linux - it was the same on Gentoo - is that the
TUs and the Arch Linux developers have pretty good programming,
scripting and administrative skills.

> There may always exist
> a user who is paranoid about any specific person. These doubts should
> not be published on mailing lists if there is no concrete case that
> has happend. Also, even if there is a concrete case, we are humans
> and make mistakes. And we are able and willing to correct them, to
> learn and not to do them again.

I know, I'm sometimes a bit paranoid. ;-)

I didn't want to offend Laszlo, and I don't know Laszlo personally. So
I didn't want to attack him personally. I just wanted to explain my
thoughts I had, when reading this thread.

Of course everybody makes mistakes. That was not my point. I don't know
it, but I think a certain knowledge should be there.

I risk my neck with careless talk now. Maybe I shouldn't have written
my comment. ;-)

I currently can't explain, what I meant exactly. I know, that I'm quite
direct, sometimes too direct.

> Sure can these things be done by any user. But one of the latest
> applicances was done because someone was very helpful on AUR bug day.
> And it turned out that he is a very good TU. 

As I've written in my second e-mail - maybe I shouldn't have written
this, too - I don't know how the TUs became TUs, how long they have
used Arch Linux before, etc. I didn't want to say, that Laszlo mustn't
become a TU. But due to the doubts, it could be better, if he just
keeps helping as a normal user. And if he clears out the doubts, which
not only I but also some TUs seem to have as it could be read here,
then he still can be made to a TU.

> so what?

I haven't looked at these PKGBUILDs, so I can be wrong as I can be with
all of my doubts and comments. But I haven't built 300 PKGBUILDs, but a
few. And there are a few applications, which are quite tricky to get
them installed. Of course he can get help, if he builds PKGBUILDs for
the community repo. Of course, nobody knows everything. And I don't
want to say, that he is not able to build PKGBUILDs at all. But if there
are doubts, and some people have doubts about his packaging skills, it's
probably not the worst idea, to first contribute PKGBUILDs for some
other applications than only vim plugins. Just my two cents.

> That point has been often discussed. Noone uses so much packages on
> adaily basis. But if every TU only maintains packages he or she
> actually uses, we would have, let's say, about 200 or 300 packages in
> [community]. I am quite sure there would be an outcry if we stop
> maintaining [community]-packages we do not use often. 

Well, I actually can't contradict. I guess it's the same with core and

> Why not? He is kernel developer! Where do you see "only basic
> scripting skills"?

I've read, that he has written, that he is developer, but I didn't
read, what he is developing. Then I guess I need to apologize to Laszlo,
what I'm doing saying this.

> What do you mean?

Read on in my first e-mail. ;-)

> We can discuss this point, but can a single package destroy trusts in
> a person? The majority of Laszlo's packages give me the impression
> that his skills are good enough. If you find one that is bad, make
> suggestions how it can be made better, but do not say you do not
> trust him.

It was not only this point. As you probably know, I always write bug
reports or in AUR comments, if I discover bugs. I would do this with
Laszlos packages, too.

> Well, you will never know. You cannot look into someones head. I
> cannot see any reasons to not trust Laszlo's willingness and skills
> to be a good TU. 

Of course. But it was the comments in this thread and the sum of the
things, not only one of these points, which made me doubt.

> Sorry for the long reply.

Why are you sorry? I think, your answer was quite good and nice. And it
cleared up my doubts - at least most of them.

I know, that I sometimes put my foot in one's mouth, and that I'm a
bit rash with my comments. But I'm willing to learn and you can kick me
somewhere, if I utter too much nonsense. ;-)

Maybe I just misunderstood him and maybe I was also not too harsh, but
too exaggerated.

But I always said, that I didn't and don't want to offend him and that
I can do him wrong.

I did it above, and I think I should do it again. I apologize to Laszlo
in every point, where I did him wrong.

And Stefan, if I hadn't written about my doubts publicly in the mailing
list, you couldn't have sent me your answer. ;-)


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