[aur-general] Huge packages in community

Angel Velásquez angvp at archlinux.com.ve
Sun May 3 12:57:44 EDT 2009

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Xyne <xyne at archlinux.ca> wrote:
>> Xyne, as I said this is nothing personal with you (I can add to the
>> list of huge maintainers: Sergej, Swiergot and many other TUs, but
>> nexuiz was the package which finally made me upset since I was
>> downloading by hours and the update wasn't finished just because
>> nexuiz), and I know you are "new" in the crew and I thought you knew
>> about the issues we had about "unpopular" and "lack of space" on the
>> server , that's why I worried about a huge games on the repo, being
>> honestly if you want to game it's ok, but games are not necessary to
>> be on the repo, being honest.
> Perhaps your definition of the word "personal" is different than mine
> and, judging by the responses, others. I'm not upset with you, but I do
> think your attitude is generally abrasive from what I've seen in your
> previous posts. It doesn't really matter though and I don't want to
> focus on that.
> As I said in my first reply, Nexuiz had already been uploaded by
> another TU when I took it over. The package size may have increased
> with the latest release, but it was still a large package before then
> and you would surely have had ample opportunity to discuss its
> inclusion in community as it's been there since I began using Arch
> nearly 9 months ago.
> I did not know about previous discussions concerning package sizes nor
> do I see how you could reasonably expect me to know about them if I
> were not here for them. I have not read the entire archive of
> aur-general.

You should read them, sometimes have a knowledge of past discussions
will clarify you many positions of many people, but it's just a
recommendation, at least I did it before applied to be a TU.

> What defines "necessary" when dealing with community packages? I
> thought core and extra were for "necessary" packages while community
> was for packages that the community wanted. Where does necessity enter
> into it? Community wasn't even enabled by default before and yet people
> managed to run their systems. This seems to be the definition of another
> word on which we disagree.

Common sens people, games are not necessary software, games are
optional software, necessary software is that which means
"productivity" or "required" (like drivers, etc).

>> My proposal is not to take away these binaries in first case, my first
>> option is to move huge games to another repo, why? as I said, games
>> *are not necessary software*, and how will benefit a [games] repo to
>> home repos?, easy!, I simply do not add [games] in the sync script and
>> the script won't download it -assuming that the waste of disk space
>> won't be a problem anymore of course-.. but syncing in the way that
>> the script is actually doing I can't realize with "marking" packages
>> for not download it.
> How would that proposal handle the currently centralized mirrorlist?
> Would you want to split that into separate repos?

Separating them in another repo, like [games] for example.

>> Of course I am talking about the situation with my home personal repo,
>> which have been downloaded every week, every saturday with a 1024 kbps
>> connection (And some other countries, and some other people have
>> better and worst connections btw), but I guess it will save bandwidth
>> on connections more powerful (like the repos that I administer) too,
>> if these kind of huge games won't be added to repos.. (I know ooo is
>> huge and texlive too, but ooo and texlive are necessary).
> What are you doing with your personal repo? Are you using it to sync
> other public repos? If not, then there is no reason at all to download
> the entire community repo. If your entire argument is based on wanting
> to remove a package from one of the official repos just so you can save
> some time when upgrading your personal computer by having a full copy
> of sync, I would call you egocentric. That is not a valid reason and it
> undermines your argument.
> If this is not the case, please clarify.

I maintain like 6 or more pcs with arch at home, so I don't like to
download the things 6 times from internet, I bet this is not only my
case, for example, a computer lab on an University of my country use
arch in every machine, (600+ machines), they should have a local repo
to update those machines eventually, I don't think that they are
considering to spend their bandwidth in games...

>> Anyway, just for the record, I am trying to do a calling for
>> maintainers with huge packages not necessary (like games), please
>> please please, think in the bandwidth and disk space of some other
>> people, =).
>> Angel Velásquez
> Again, what is "necessary" according to you and what bandwidth are we
> talking about here? If this really is just for your personal repo?

Is not just for my personal repo, and nexuiz isn't the only case,
there are other packages which are in AUR and are huge that can be
added to this new repo [games] (so this repo will rocks for many
"gamers") but of course, non-gamers won't have to download it..

> Also note that in my first reply I offered to move Nexuiz to the AUR,
> stating the pros and cons that such a move would entail. I hope that
> some other TUs will weigh in on this discussion and post their thoughts
> on my previous suggestion.

Yes I read your thoughts I hope you understood the concept of what
means "games" and "productivity software.

For now, I will take the idea of Abhishek about limiting the mb (on my
local repo) and I will suggest this on the wiki article.

Btw, a couple of people wrote in this thread without knowing about
what I am talking about, let me point them [0]

[0] http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Local_Mirror

And btw, some people should read the history of the mailing list, for
example, it was discussed about removing categories from community/AUR
weeks ago, I am not sure if that was accepted on a SVP (read TU
Guidelines please).

<off-topic>P.S: Daenyth, stop saying arguments about my attitude and
complaining about it, I told that this is nothing personal against
anybody, if you will still telling that I was "crotchety" or asking
"who are I to say whatever", I will start thinking that you got it
personally TO YOU, in that case, I never mentioned you (just your
repo) and you shouldn't take the things in that way, just an advice
for your health.</off-topic>

Thanks Abhishek.

Angel Velásquez
angvp @ irc.freenode.net
Linux Counter: #359909

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