[aur-general] Attempting to update upwork-beta, and hit a head-scratcher

[Eli Schwartz]

On 07/16/2018 03:19 PM, Shane Simmons via aur-general wrote:
> If anyone cares to review the comments, yes, I posted on the git repo, but
> only because of the admonishment that AUR isn't the place to post bugs on
> aurman.  Or, you could review the comments if they weren't deleted.  Part
> of mine were a plea to just leave the thread up for people who were
> similarly confused.  Request denied, account locked, and a blanket message
> that peoples' accounts were being suspended for spam.

From:

"aurman is broken"
"PLEASE check your dependencies. Don't just check pacman on your Dev box"
"I mean, it's cute and all that you closed the bug and marked it as
invalid, but your package updates itself from the aur, and you have
2.13.1-1 marked as the release version, which depends on
expac-git>=8.1.g5ae006f which the maintainer has set to be version
3.9.g7a73405-1 for some reason."

to

"plea to leave the thread up for people who were similarly confused"

Very nice of you to focus so much on the last sentence of your last comment.

> Had you simply posted a simple "make sure to install expac-git before
> upgrading or aurman will complain about broken dependencies" would have
> avoided having anyone post comments.   Had expac-git actually been broken
> instead of me just not understanding that PKGVER doesn't get updated in a
> PKGBUILD ;-) relying on a nonexistent package would be a bug, no? ;-)  Your
> response to that was to first post the output of pacman -Qi, then to hurl
> an insult about how users are turing-complete and I should act like I am.
> (I'm paraphrasing here because, quite frankly, I can't refer to the deleted
> comments.)  It's not nearly as obvious as you seem to think it is (I
> generally avoid anything that has -git dependencies), and a simple google
> search shows that you need guidance sometimes, too.  Treat others the way
> you want to be treated, imho.

My comment about turing-complete users was not deleted.

polygamma's comment much earlier that day posting the output of pacman
-Qi on the github issues was not deleted.

They're two almost unrelated incidents, and my comment only came about
in the context of your persistent nudnik behavior.

> Anyway, my solution was pretty simple: just stop using aurman.  If I'm
> going to lose access to AUR because my post is deemed Not A Problem, then I
> can't trust the software.

You did not. You lost access to the AUR because I made a judgment call
that you were graduating to outright harassment of polygamma.

Arch Linux and the AUR and in fact the internet are full of smart
people, stupid people, annoying-but-smart people, annoyingly stupid
people, and a variety of other types of "people", a good chunk of which
I probably don't want to spend time with and a number of whom are fairly
typical "help vampires". Our help forums are fairly well moderated
(let's call it that, anyway, lest the ringwraiths who dwell there get
angry :p); the AUR is decidedly less so.

Most people whose comments have been deleted did not get their account
suspended too. I think it's fair to say that this case must have been
significantly something aside from just "because my post is deemed Not A
Problem".

So to get back to a common theme here, maybe, just maybe, the reason
you're different is because you weren't just saying something deemed not
a problem, but were actually saying something which was deemed a *social
problem on your part*?

> I didn't go around to various forums posting
> about how people shouldn't use it; it's a popular AUR helper for a very
> good reason.

Your *first* comment on Github closed with the sentence:

"If you're going to simply close bugs now because you don't want to deal
with it, please let us all know so we can find another aur helper."

> I fully expect my account will be suspended shortly after I
> hit Send, and I guess that's fine.  I'm not married to Arch, either, which
> I'll have to stop using because I won't just make packages for myself to
> keep using Upwork.     But just...settle down.    Not every non-positive
> comment is a personal attack on you.

And not every comment that I deleted on that page was accompanied by a
suspension. Just the one user who refused to listen when the developer
and maintainer told you you were wrong, but kept on insisting that
nevertheless he was wrong.

Given your acknowledgment that you aren't familiar with -git packages,
and given the fact that someone who is familiar enough with them to
write an AUR helper around them tells you it will work... why did you
spend so much time asserting with serene confidence in your own ultimate
correctness that you are right and everyone else is wrong...

... instead of literally just trying to go through with the update as
you were advised to *from the very beginning of the beginning*?

You started from the very beginning with maximum "I'm right and this AUR
helper author is not just wrong, but an incompetent person who thinks he
is 'cute' but actually his thing is buggy and he doesn't want to deal
with bugs so he should tell his users that so they know they should go
find another helper".

-- 
Eli Schwartz
Bug Wrangler and Trusted User

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