w9ya wrote:

Allan;

A - Your attempt to make my pending resignation something to be decided by a vote has succeeded in validating, in the simplest of examples, my belief that the TU system is in the process of deteriorating.

Allan, a resignation should ALWAYS be treated with the utmost respect. It should NOT be subject to a vote as it is a personal and NOT a group decision. It should never be cheapened with what you attempt below, more especially since you could have easily waited a day, as others were willing to do, for my resignation.

So where did you post that your resignation would be coming in a day? I do not have psychic abilities. Your packages were removed from [community] 13 days ago so it seems you had plenty of time. I was not intending to cheapen your resignation, I was calling for your removal which is a group decision and does required a vote.

B - Your unilaterally removing my access without this vote having taken place first was NOT your decision to make. Because;

As you correctly say below; any TU currently has a right to remove anything he contributes. Nothing more than exactly this has taken place so far. There are no security issues or personal issues that concern either you or any other TU as relates to ANYTHING I or Daenyth have done in preparation for my resignation. C - I actually deleted NO PKGBUILDs from the AUR as your email below indicates, but rather asked for the removal of my contributions to (only) the binary repo which Daenyth's told you earlier today in a public email.

Any packages removed from [community] should go into the AUR. That has been well established over the years. In fact, look at the script Daenyth posted which did that job for you and you will notice that it automatically uploaded the packages to the AUR. A TU has the right to remove packages from [community] and delete them from the AUR but I really don't think valid reasons for a TU to delete packages from the AUR extends to "I contributed them". Quoting Daneyth's email... "he deleted any in unsupported that he had made". Given the packages were uploaded to the AUR during their removal from [community] and those packages were no longer in the AUR, I am left to conclude that you were removing them from the AUR, which I considered a security issue, hence the call for your removal. Removing peoples access when they are resigning or being removed is standard practice in IT, so either way, I feel my removal of your access was justified. I wish you well with you ham-radio spin-off distro/repo and thank you for the contributions you did make to the TU group. Regards, Allan

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 02:26:30PM +0900, Callan Barrett wrote:

What exactly is going on here? Has Bob removed his packages from community or the AUR?

He removed them from community and was telling people not to submit them to unsupported. He wanted all traces of his packages to disappear.

Allan; In fact Daenyth did NOT place my packages into the AUR after removing them from the binary repo. I have the transcripts from the TU irc channel where we discussed this very thing. But this remains a reliance on a detail that CANNOT have *any* bearing since a TU has the right to remove a package or PKGBUILD that they contribute. Your focusing on such minute details as a basis for your proposal is troubling. ANY action you took based on this remains troubling. Not just now but into the future. Your calling for my removal while you knew I am preparing my resignation remains in poor taste. You could have sent me an email and asked what was going on when you were told I was planning to leave, as this was hardly a secret. ONLY you are blame for any decision to not communicate despite your protestations below. Thanks for wishing me well. Bob Finch On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 10:14 PM, Allan McRae <allan@archlinux.org> wrote:

w9ya wrote:

...

Allan;

A - Your attempt to make my pending resignation something to be decided by a vote has succeeded in validating, in the simplest of examples, my belief that the TU system is in the process of deteriorating.

Allan, a resignation should ALWAYS be treated with the utmost respect. It should NOT be subject to a vote as it is a personal and NOT a group decision. It should never be cheapened with what you attempt below, more especially since you could have easily waited a day, as others were willing to do, for my resignation.

So where did you post that your resignation would be coming in a day? I do not have psychic abilities. Your packages were removed from [community] 13 days ago so it seems you had plenty of time. I was not intending to cheapen your resignation, I was calling for your removal which is a group decision and does required a vote.

B - Your unilaterally removing my access without this vote having taken

...

place first was NOT your decision to make. Because;

As you correctly say below; any TU currently has a right to remove anything he contributes. Nothing more than exactly this has taken place so far. There are no security issues or personal issues that concern either you or any other TU as relates to ANYTHING I or Daenyth have done in preparation for my resignation. C - I actually deleted NO PKGBUILDs from the AUR as your email below indicates, but rather asked for the removal of my contributions to (only) the binary repo which Daenyth's told you earlier today in a public email.

Any packages removed from [community] should go into the AUR. That has been well established over the years. In fact, look at the script Daenyth posted which did that job for you and you will notice that it automatically uploaded the packages to the AUR. A TU has the right to remove packages from [community] and delete them from the AUR but I really don't think valid reasons for a TU to delete packages from the AUR extends to "I contributed them".

Quoting Daneyth's email... "he deleted any in unsupported that he had made". Given the packages were uploaded to the AUR during their removal from [community] and those packages were no longer in the AUR, I am left to conclude that you were removing them from the AUR, which I considered a security issue, hence the call for your removal. Removing peoples access when they are resigning or being removed is standard practice in IT, so either way, I feel my removal of your access was justified.

I wish you well with you ham-radio spin-off distro/repo and thank you for the contributions you did make to the TU group.

Regards, Allan

Allan; NO ONE hid anything from you at any point. And that is not going on now either. Had you bothered to ask first you would have found out that ALL of these particulars you bring up below and elsewhere were discussed at length, including the removal of the packages and their disposition. These discussions took place over a period of almost two weeks (13 days as you point out) with several TUs on the TU's irc channel. We reached an agreement just yesterday. It was neither the secret you suggest nor did it require any psychic powers on your part to find out the information. You needed to merely ask. Or did you NOT believe or understand Daenyth when he told you in an email I had been planning to resign ? Did you not understand when he suggested that you to find out the rest of the 'story' from me ? You had merely to write me and ask in any event. You chose not to. These emails between yourself and Daenyth took place before you wrote up this proposal, so it is silly for you to suggest that you could not have known or that I expect you to have psychic powers. That's nonsense young man. You SHOULD take responsibility for what you did as well as the results of your actions. Quit blaming me or anyone else. Bob Finch On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:06 AM, Allan McRae <allan@archlinux.org> wrote:

w9ya wrote:

...

In fact Daenyth did NOT place my packages into the AUR after removing them from the binary repo. I have the transcripts from the TU irc channel where we discussed this very thing. But this remains a reliance on a detail that CANNOT have *any* bearing since a TU has the right to remove a package or PKGBUILD that they contribute.

The script Daenyth provided me puts packages back into the AUR so I assumed that had been done. Not moving packages to the AUR after they were in [community] is very poor form and in my opinion is just as bad as deleting them from the AUR. Why do TUs have the right to delete their own packages when users don't? Just because TUs can delete packages, does not mean they should or even have the right to for no other reason than "I made it".

Your focusing on such minute details as a basis for your proposal is

...

troubling. ANY action you took based on this remains troubling. Not just now but into the future.

As was your "packing up your toys and leaving". Except you had not left. You were just sitting in the corner, destroying your toys. If another TU removes all their packages from [community] and does not put them in the AUR or resign, I will do the same thing again.

Your calling for my removal while you knew I am preparing my resignation

...

remains in poor taste. You could have sent me an email and asked what was going on when you were told I was planning to leave, as this was hardly a secret. ONLY you are blame for any decision to not communicate despite your protestations below.

I have already stated that I do not have psychic powers so did not know you were resigning. All I knew was you were removing all traces of your packages which I was obviously far less than impressed with. All could have been avoided if you actually resigned when you made the decision, rather than waiting 13 days after your packages had been removed. Then I would have just silently uploaded them to the AUR rather than having to block you removing them first. Reducing your powers on the AUR required I make the call for your removal. Surely you of all people could have predicted the consequences of your actions...

Bye, Allan

An open letter to the remaining TUs; These are NOT "opinions" as Allan would have you believe.: FACT : Daenyth wrote this to Allan in reference to Allan's question about what was going on: "He said before that he was planning to resign,...." (He equals me.) FACT : Allan responded to this email. " I will be starting a removal thread. " FACT : Approximately 8 minutes LATER Allan wrote this at the start of the email thread we are in: "Bob has removed all his packages from [community] and apparently intends to resign anyway." FACT : Across several emails I kept asking this: "Your calling for my removal while you knew I am preparing my resignation remains in poor taste." FACT : In Allan's second to last post in this thread Allan this was his response: " I have already stated that I do not have psychic powers so did not know you were resigning." It is also therefore NOT an "opinion" that Allen has willing lied herein in an attempt to explain his behavior. Finally Allan also did say this in his first email that started this thread: FACT : ".... only Trusted Users can delete packages from the AUR ." I was a TU when I asked Daenyth to remove my community repo packages. This was NOT violation of rules by his own admission. Yet he sought to remove me and lied in the process. He lied to you. Allan, you are an exposed liar and you are willing to cheat to get your way. Shame on you. And shame on anyone that supports your behavior. With that there are no reasons to continue commenting about Allan's lying herein. There is also no reason to be a part of such a farce as he is willing engaged in. I have not left the TU irc channel, and will not be a contributor any further. If any of you have any respect for honesty and fair play, you will allow me to follow Aaron G.'s wishes for relocating the packages I have contributed to a separate repo. Such a separation necessarily requires that the PKGBUILDs be removed so that there is no plagiarism and/or dual versions /syncing issues. Bob Finch On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:51 AM, Allan McRae <allan@archlinux.org> wrote:

Bob,

At this point I really don't care what your opinion is. I got your packages from [community] into the AUR and you can no longer remove them. So I have achieved that I set out to do today.

If other TUs have problems with my methods then they will bring it up themselves.

Allan

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 04:42:07AM -0700, w9ya wrote:

Finally Allan also did say this in his first email that started this thread:

FACT : ".... only Trusted Users can delete packages from the AUR ."

I was a TU when I asked Daenyth to remove my community repo packages. This was NOT violation of rules by his own admission. Yet he sought to remove me and lied in the process. He lied to you.

By attempting to remove all traces of the packages you betrayed the Trusted Users' trust. It's a selfish move despite your claims of syncing issues. That's what the problem is. Don't be ridiculous. There is no reason that PKGBUILDs in AUR should stop you from creating and maintaining your repo.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 9:55 AM, w9ya <w9ya@qrparci.net> wrote:

Allan's removal of my ability to access the AUR

You should still be able to access the AUR and upload. Allan did not delete your account.

Allan has removed any chance of my hosting a separate repo as per Aaron G.'s and my own personal wishes because I no longer have access to the AUR. As Daenyth has already told you, the plan was to replace the PKGBUILDs into the AUR upon my resignation. What no one has asked yet, but which we **DID** discuss on the TU irc, was that the replacement PKGBUILDs were to contain additional fields, an original contributor field and a field to notate that the binaries were being hosted elsewhere. Since Allan has jumped the gun, unilaterally and without permission by removing my access, I have no way to add these fields into the PKGBUILDs. If he really meant that his placing the PKGBUILDs into the AUR would not be a problem for hosting a separate repo, he should be willing to add the extra commented fields I outlined above into the PKGBUILDs he so thoughtfully placed into the AUR. As for his lying about what he knew concerning my intentions to resign and when he knew it...it is humorous that he is being allowed to get away. He clearly did lie if you read through the messages in this thread. Bob Finch

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Aaron Griffin <aaronmgriffin@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:31 AM, w9ya <w9ya@qrparci.net> wrote:

...

Allan has removed any chance of my hosting a separate repo as per Aaron G.'s and my own personal wishes because I no longer have access to the AUR.

I'm still at a loss here. Why can you not access the AUR? Allan didn't delete your account. If you mean the packages are not owned by you, you should be able to adopt them (assuming they are orphans) and update them just fine.

Please let me know exactly what errors you are experiencing with updating your PKGBUILDs in the AUR

Can we please stop the fighting. Look at my mail above. I will fix this. Tell me why you cannot update your packages. If someone else has adopted them, I will orphan them for you so you can adopt them and update them as you see fit. Please, there's no problem here. We can argue for hours and hours about who peed in who's cereal, but we're all adults here. Let's just fix this and move on

w9ya wrote:

FACT : Daenyth wrote this to Allan in reference to Allan's question about what was going on: "He said before that he was planning to resign,...." (He equals me.)

FACT: Planning does not equate to doing. FACT: Attempting to remove all traces of your packages just because you wrote them is not acceptable FACT: I felt you needed restricted in your ability to remove packages from the AUR asap. FACT: The way to achieve this was to call for your removal as a TU.

FACT : Across several emails I kept asking this: "Your calling for my removal while you knew I am preparing my resignation remains in poor taste."

FACT: That is not a question. Probably why you got no response.

FACT : ".... only Trusted Users can delete packages from the AUR ."

I was a TU when I asked Daenyth to remove my community repo packages. This was NOT violation of rules by his own admission. Yet he sought to remove me and lied in the process. He lied to you.

FACT: This was never about removal of packages from [community]. It was about them either not being put in the AUR afterwards or removing them from the AUR.

If any of you have any respect for honesty and fair play, you will allow me to follow Aaron G.'s wishes for relocating the packages I have contributed to a separate repo.

LIKELY FACT: Aaron did not ask you to remove them from the AUR or exclude them from being put there after removal from [community]. So I would be careful about statements you imply others made. FACT: Having packages in the AUR in no way hinders you having them in your own repo. Allan

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 6:36 AM, Daenyth Blank <daenyth+arch@gmail.com<daenyth%2Barch@gmail.com>

wrote:

FWIW, I'd like to clarify that the ones removed from community were not added to the AUR at all, as he asked that we wait until his repo was set up before doing so. The ones I referred to him deleting from unsupported were the ones which had never been in community, and which only he had contributed to. I have the relevent IRC logs if you'd like me to post. Hopefully this clarifies any confusion.

i deleted NOTHING from AUR. Bob Finch

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:47, w9ya <w9ya@qrparci.net> wrote:

i deleted NOTHING from AUR.

Bob Finch

That was my misunderstanding then. For some reason I interpreted it that way. I was referring to around this: (Dec 4th)18:06:06< bfinch> Daenyth, i have disowned those packages that I did not orginally author.. the rest I woudl appreciate a COMPLETE removal , including the files please 18:24:29< bfinch> louipc, o.k.. so i do not want any more stealing of my work... so I want it removed entirely

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:11:25AM -0700, w9ya wrote:

Yes Daenyth this was from the TU irc channel,.. and **then** we went on to talk about field additions to (try to) prevent;

A - Someone removing my name to enter theirs as contributor.. ala an additional commented field caled "Original Contributor". I even asked if you wanted to do this. You declined and said I should do that. I had nto done that because I had not yet resigned AND the following issue;

B - I was also concerned and voiced it on the TU irc at about the same time about how this would all work if I set up a separate binary repo. Since the PKGBUILDs in AUR can be "upgraded" into a binary by a TU at a later date and I would have no access to this PKGBUILD at that point, having resigned. Because of that there could easily be syncing problems from different versions of binaries sitting in two different binary repos, or worse compile time issues, or differing dep. issues.. and the list may even be twice that large for impacting issues.

This discussion is futile. There is obviously some rift in comprehension here. We should at least take a good long break to think before writing any more emails. Thank you.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 11:20:25AM -0700, w9ya wrote:

I did NOT erase any PKGBUILDs from the AUR. My PKGBUILDS were disowned by others, tampered with, by others. I am being accused of these things. You were aware of this two days ago. You were there. You even watched as others in the channel brought up what they knew about tampering. Yet I am remain accused of things I did not do, and you could put a stop to it. Daenyth could put a stop to it. ANY TU could put a stop to this kangaroo court.

You did remove the PKGBUILDs via Daenyth. You removed them from community and did not restore them in unsupported. This is what it's all about. Understood? You can no longer be trusted. It shouldn't have taken you so long to set up your repo, resign, and put the packages into unsupported. If it did, then you should have outlined your plans in an email from the very beginning rather than assuming that everyone can hear what you say in the IRC channel.

However, there is no desire to do anything other than watch me hang, which I will be doing in protest if I remain any longer. I cannot wait any longer under the circumstances. If you want to plaint me quilty of something becuase of that, well that woudl be nothing new.

Why do you think no one is protesting your removal? Think about it for a moment why don't you? I'll tell you. People are sick of you. People are sick of your disrespect, sick of your self importance, your incompetence and your selfishness. We don't want you any more. Either that, or no one really cares. Every email you send darkens your image, enflames our annoyance towards you, and drains morale and energy from the community. If you have any respect or dignity you will not send another. Good riddance sir.

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:20 AM, w9ya <w9ya@qrparci.net> wrote:

However, there is no desire to do anything other than watch me hang, which I will be doing in protest if I remain any longer. I cannot wait any longer under the circumstances. If you want to plaint me quilty of something becuase of that, well that woudl be nothing new.

Bob Finch

Bob, nobody can hang you as you have already resigned. There is nothing left to discuss with respect to your role as Trusted User. Period. As has been mentioned multiple times, if you are still having trouble accessing the AUR, I suggest that you respond to Aaron's attempts to help.