- Arch-general - lists.archlinux.org

[arch-general] a plea for python 2
by Evan Martin 15 Dec '11

15 Dec '11

Hello, I'm a recent Arch user, a refugee from Ubuntu. I was attracted to Arch because I was tired of Ubuntu forcing their new software on me -- it seemed the Arch way was to allow you to use bleeding edge if you wanted it, but to not fork upstream. So it was with some surprise that I discovered that Arch made /usr/bin/python point to something other than Python 2. This differs from every other system (not only other Linuxes, but also [as I learned from bug reports I received] OS X and even python.exe on Windows). I appreciate that y'all want to use the bleeding edge, and it completely consistent with my understanding of Arch that you would only provide Python 3 by default as well as write your system scripts use Python 3. (I write this mail with some trepidation as I fear a response like "STFU noob Arch is bleeding edge", which is emphatically not a response to the issue I'm actually raising.) What I don't understand is why you're manually patching upstream software to rewrite references from /usr/bin/python to /usr/bin/python2. This sort of forking is exactly the sort of divergence (like how Ubuntu modified their GTK to add their own specific hooks) that I was fleeing from when I came to Arch. :( You can see in the references below that it appears this is contrary to how upstream thinks it should work. It means that I can't download any random project (such as Chromium) and build it without first applying Arch-specific patches. And upstreams like Chromium can't change to support Arch's divergence without breaking their code on non-Arch systems. As a software developer, I am now getting contacted by users where my software doesn't work on Arch. I even applied a patch submitted by an Arch user to make my code use "python2" only to discover it broke my software on Mac and Windows. So my questions for you are 1) Is it intentional that I am unable to use software from upstream like Django unmodified? Am I expected to only install software from the Arch repositories, where it has been patched by Arch devs to work on Arch? (See below for more on Django.) 2) Should I change the software I write to attempt to detect when I'm on an Arch system and adjust scripts/etc. accordingly? (I can't just "fix it" because there is no /usr/bin/python2 on existing systems like Macs.) Both of those seem pretty unsatisfactory. Help! Here are some additional references, if they help you any. - Upstream Python dev believes that code that uses /usr/bin/python when it wanted Python 3 is wrong: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2009-April/088864.html - According to Google's Code search, there are likely around 80,000 existing Python scripts that are broken by this change. (Note that searching for /usr/bin/python[^23] doesn't work, you have to search for /usr/bin/python then subtract out the ones ending in 2 or 3: http://codesearch.google.com/#search/&q=/usr/bin/python%20lang:python&type=… http://codesearch.google.com/#search/&q=/usr/bin/python%5B23%5D%20lang:pyth… ) - As a random example, here's a script from the Django project (which I chose for this mail as an example of a high-profile Python program) that uses 'python' when it means Python 2: https://code.djangoproject.com/svn/django/trunk/tests/runtests.py Here's their statement on Python 3: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/faq/install/#can-i-use-django-with-py… And here's the PKGBUILD, which patches around this: http://projects.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/tree/trunk/PKGBUILD?h=p… - Here's a project of mine where on AUR they've attempted to patch around the python/python2 thing in the PKGBUILD: http://aur.archlinux.org/packages/ni/ninja-git/PKGBUILD However, the patch is not sufficient, which lead to another bug report. - A Python developer discusses how Python3 is very different from Python2, making it very difficult as a developer to support both: http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2011/12/7/thoughts-on-python3/

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Re: [arch-general] Accented characters in X terminal? (Solved)
by Magnus Therning 15 Dec '11

15 Dec '11

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 09:51, Magnus Therning <magnus(a)therning.org> wrote: > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 21:07, Mauro Santos <registo.mailling(a)gmail.com> wrote: > [...] >> Thinking better about it, check your pacman logs for any font updates >> and try setting the terminal emulator to use a different font, maybe to >> a font that renders properly in other places like a text editor. > > There is nothing that stands out, and changing the font doesn't > improve things at all :( > > I also tried logging into Gnome3 (using GDM) and then I do get the > accented characters, in both lxterminal and gnome-terminal. > > /M I'm not sure why, but the locale wasn't set properly by lxdm. I added the line export LANG=sv_SE.utf8 into ~/.xprofile to make sure it was set before lxsession is invoked and now everything is fine again. /M -- Magnus Therning OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4 email: magnus(a)therning.org jabber: magnus(a)therning.org twitter: magthe http://therning.org/magnus

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[arch-general] Pacman update fails to commit transaction
by Grant McDuling 14 Dec '11

14 Dec '11

I have my new system up and running and am delighted. However, when running packman -Syu to update, all appeared to be progressing well with all sorts of downloads happening but at the end the message says: Checking package integrity, checking for file conflicts, error: failed to commit transaction (conflicting files).initscripts: /etc/profile.d/locale.sh exists in filesystem. Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded. What do you suggest? Grant McDuling Writer http://www.amazon.com/Grant-McDuling/e/B004UTH35M

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[arch-general] offlineimap
by Ralf Madorf 13 Dec '11

13 Dec '11

Hi :) I suspect that offlineimap isn't what I need for the wanted task: - to download emails from my providers server - to delete them from the server when the download is finished - to keep them on my computer, to get access to the emails from different Linux installs So I won't sync between my provider's server and my computer, but I'll sync between several mailers on my computer. I like to test offlineimap anyway. There are two issues: - the wanted language for my computer should be English, but the maildir directories always are generated in German. I never set anything, but the keyboard and the timezone to German, but first there wasn't a /etc/locale.conf, later I added this configuration file, but nothing changed [1] - neither Evolution, nor Kmail are able to use the generated maildir, resp. Evolution doesn't show the tons of mails of the INBOX, but instead the few mails of a folder called Entw&APw-rfe [2] FWIW I also installed Mutt, but I'll use a MUA with a GUI. [1] ################ ### 1. SETUP ### ################ /etc/rc.conf LOCALE="en_US.UTF-8" DAEMON_LOCALE="no" HARDWARECLOCK="localtime" TIMEZONE="Europe/Berlin" KEYMAP="de-latin1" /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/keyboard.conf Option "XkbLayout" "de" /etc/locale.conf No such file or directory ################ ### 2. SETUP ### ################ /etc/locale.conf LOCALE="en_US.UTF-8 I deleted .offlineimap and Maildir and set up a new Evolution accounds. [2] ##################### ### offlineimaprc ### ##################### ################################################## # General definitions ################################################## [general] metadata = ~/.offlineimap accounts = Spinymouse maxsyncaccounts = 1 ui = Blinkenlights fsync = true ################################################## # Mailbox name recorder ################################################## [mbnames] ### First I tried with this and different settings for sep #enabled = no #filename = ~/Mutt/muttrc.mailboxes #header = "mailboxes " #peritem = "+%(accountname)s/%(foldername)s" #sep =############ #footer = "\n" ################################################## # Accounts ################################################## [Account Spinymouse] localrepository = Spinymouse-local remoterepository = Spinymouse-remote [Repository Spinymouse-local] type = Maildir localfolders = ~/Maildir sep = / restoreatime = no [Repository Spinymouse-remote] type = IMAP remotehost = imap.alice-dsl.net ssl = yes remoteuser = ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net maxconnections = 2 holdconnectionopen = no subscribedonly = no readonly = False Regards, Ralf

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Re: [arch-general] urxvt colours and Xresources
by gt 13 Dec '11

13 Dec '11

Well, changing the termName to rxvt, has solved things for now. I know it's not good to force termNames, but i didn't see any other solution for now. Let's wait and see if this gives trouble or not. -- O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org

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[arch-general] urxvt colours and Xresources
by gt 13 Dec '11

13 Dec '11

Hello folks I have been facing this issue from a long time. The issue is that sometimes the bold colours aren't loaded by urxvt. I mainly use the terminals inside screen, and then the colours are loaded properly (not always though). But when launching the terminal standalone, the colours aren't loaded properly. Here's the screenshot with normal colours: http://ompldr.org/vYm9ucA And when the problem occurs http://ompldr.org/vYm9ubw I have also attached my .Xresources and .xinitrc with the message. Please if someone has a clue, then enlighten me. Thanks -- O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org

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[arch-general] netcfg pppoe 'error sending pppoe packet: Network is down'
by Ralf Mardorf 12 Dec '11

12 Dec '11

Hi :) if I run (as root, there anyway still is no user) 'netcfg pppoe' I get 'error sending/receiving pppoe packet: Network is down'. I never set up a wired pppoe connection manually before. Cheers! Ralf PS: I've seen that there are 2 entries to edit and one might or might not be a typo. Perhaps I'm missing much more ;). # # /etc/rc.conf - Main Configuration for Arch Linux # # ----------------------------------------------------------------------- # LOCALIZATION # ----------------------------------------------------------------------- # # [snip] LOCALE="en_US.UTF-8" DAEMON_LOCALE="no" HARDWARECLOCK="localtime" TIMEZONE="Europe/Berlin" KEYMAP="de-latin1" CONSOLEFONT= CONSOLEMAP= USECOLOR="yes" # ----------------------------------------------------------------------- # HARDWARE # ----------------------------------------------------------------------- # # [snip] MODULES=() # Udev settle timeout (default to 30) UDEV_TIMEOUT=30 # Scan for FakeRAID (dmraid) Volumes at startup USEDMRAID="no" # Scan for BTRFS volumes at startup USEBTRFS="no" # Scan for LVM volume groups at startup, required if you use LVM USELVM="no" # ----------------------------------------------------------------------- # NETWORKING # ----------------------------------------------------------------------- # # HOSTNAME: Hostname of machine. Should also be put in /etc/hosts # HOSTNAME="archlinux" # Use 'ip addr' or 'ls /sys/class/net/' to see all available interfaces. # # [snip] #eth0="eth0 192.168.0.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.168.0.255" #eth0="dhcp" #INTERFACES=(eth0) # Setting this to "yes" will skip network shutdown. # This is required if your root device is on NFS. NETWORK_PERSIST="no" # Enable these netcfg profiles at boot-up. [snip] NETWORKS=pppoe # ----------------------------------------------------------------------- # DAEMONS # ----------------------------------------------------------------------- # [snip] DAEMONS=(hwclock syslog-ng !network !netfs crond) root@PartedMagic:/media/sda9# cat etc/network.d/pppoe CONNECTION='ppp' INTERFACE=eth0 PEER='provider' PPP_TIMEOUT=10 root@PartedMagic:/media/sda9# cat etc/hosts # # /etc/hosts: static lookup table for host names # #<ip-address> <hostname.domain.org> <hostname> 127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost archlinux ::1 localhost.localdomain localhost # End of file root@PartedMagic:/media/sda9# cat etc/ppp/peers/alice # /etc/ppp/peers/your_provider plugin rp-pppoe.so # rp_pppoe_ac 'your ac name' # rp_pppoe_service 'your service name' # network interface eth0 # login name name "[snip]" usepeerdns persist # Uncomment this if you want to enable dial on demand #demand #idle 180 defaultroute hide-password noauth root@PartedMagic:/media/sda9# ls etc/ppp/peers -hAl total 4 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 303 Dec 8 08:01 alice lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5 Dec 8 08:11 provider -> alice root@PartedMagic:/media/sda9# cat etc/ppp/pap-secrets # Secrets for authentication using PAP # client server secret IP addresses "[snip]" * "[snip]" root@PartedMagic:/media/sda9# cat etc/ppp/pppoe.conf # [snip] # Ethernet card connected to DSL modem ETH='sth0' ### ??? TYPO #### # PPPoE user name. [snip] USER='[snip]' # Bring link up on demand? [snip] DEMAND=no #DEMAND=300 # [snip] DNSTYPE=SERVER # [snip] PEERDNS=yes DNS1= DNS2= # Make the PPPoE connection your default route. [snip] DEFAULTROUTE=yes ### ONLY TOUCH THE FOLLOWING SETTINGS IF YOU'RE AN EXPERT # [snip] # If you are using rp-pppoe on a physically-inaccessible host, set # CONNECT_TIMEOUT to 0. This makes SURE that the machine keeps trying # to connect forever after pppoe-start is called. Otherwise, it will # give out after CONNECT_TIMEOUT seconds and will not attempt to # connect again, making it impossible to reach. CONNECT_TIMEOUT=30 ### TODO ### # How often in seconds pppoe-start polls to check if link is up CONNECT_POLL=2 # Specific desired AC Name ACNAME= # Specific desired service name SERVICENAME= # Character to echo at each poll. Use PING="" if you don't want # anything echoed PING="." # File where the pppoe-connect script writes its process-ID. # Three files are actually used: # $PIDFILE contains PID of pppoe-connect script # $PIDFILE.pppoe contains PID of pppoe process # $PIDFILE.pppd contains PID of pppd process CF_BASE=`basename $CONFIG` PIDFILE="/var/run/$CF_BASE-pppoe.pid" # Do you want to use synchronous PPP? "yes" or "no". "yes" is much # easier on CPU usage, but may not work for you. It is safer to use # "no", but you may want to experiment with "yes". "yes" is generally # safe on Linux machines with the n_hdlc line discipline; unsafe on others. SYNCHRONOUS=no # Do you want to clamp the MSS? Here's how to decide: # - If you have only a SINGLE computer connected to the DSL modem, choose # "no". # - If you have a computer acting as a gateway for a LAN, choose "1412". # The setting of 1412 is safe for either setup, but uses slightly more # CPU power. CLAMPMSS=1412 ### TODO ### #CLAMPMSS=no ### TODO ### # LCP echo interval and failure count. LCP_INTERVAL=20 LCP_FAILURE=3 # PPPOE_TIMEOUT should be about 4*LCP_INTERVAL PPPOE_TIMEOUT=80 # Firewalling: One of NONE, STANDALONE or MASQUERADE FIREWALL=STANDALONE # Linux kernel-mode plugin for pppd. If you want to try the kernel-mode # plugin, use LINUX_PLUGIN=/etc/ppp/plugins/rp-pppoe.so LINUX_PLUGIN= # Any extra arguments to pass to pppoe. Normally, use a blank string # like this: PPPOE_EXTRA="" # Rumour has it that "Citizen's Communications" with a 3Com # HomeConnect DSL Modem DualLink requires these extra options: # PPPOE_EXTRA="-f 3c12:3c13 -S ISP" # Any extra arguments to pass to pppd. Normally, use a blank string # like this: PPPD_EXTRA="" ########## DON'T CHANGE BELOW UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING # If you wish to COMPLETELY overrride the pppd invocation: # Example: # OVERRIDE_PPPD_COMMAND="pppd call dsl" # If you want pppoe-connect to exit when connection drops: # RETRY_ON_FAILURE=no

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Re: [arch-general] audio realtime, was: /usr/bin/X: No such file
by Ralf Madorf 12 Dec '11

12 Dec '11

Thank you Bernardo. Thank you Ray. Ray, a note to your comment about HPET/hrtimer, for jackd IMO it's unusable, since at least my machine doesnt have enough timers. I'm using it for the ALSA sequencer timer only. Some apps freeze the system, when it's enabled. Fortunately non of those I'm using. Regarding to MIDI jitter with hardware interfaces it can improve a little bit. Cheers! Ralf

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[arch-general] Top level node not shown in Texinfo viewer
by Ricardo Catalinas Jiménez 12 Dec '11

12 Dec '11

Using the Texinfo standalone viewer, I found out that the top level node is not shown with the command `info' as it should. In Ubuntu seems to work fine with Texinfo 4.13, but here in Arch I don't know if it is really a bug or what :-/ Anyone can see this top level node just executing `info'? Thanks in advance. -- Ricardo (http://r.untroubled.be/)

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[arch-general] audio realtime, was: /usr/bin/X: No such file
by Ralf Mardorf 11 Dec '11

11 Dec '11

Sorry some additional Arch Linux newbie questions ;) -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: arch-general-bounces(a)archlinux.org im Auftrag von Ionut Biru Gesendet: So 12/11/2011 16:19 > AUR is your friend. > > nvidia-lts for kernel26-lts is in extra. > nvidia-rt from aur > nvidia-$yourcrappykerly from aur http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=12132 Dependencies: linux-rt>=3.0.0 linux-rt<3.2.0 nvidia-utils=285.05.09 So if I build a kernel myself, not by using pacman or PKGBUILD I need to add some kind of dummy package? I'll test one of those kernels from https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pro_Audio#Realtime_Kernel but usually I'm using my self build kernels only. Btw. I can't agree with "Tickless, CONFIG_NO_HZ, i.e "dynticks", or "dynamic ticks", is said to interfere with realtime (though the extent may not be noticeable)." it reduces audible MIDI jitter on my machine. Dunno how PKGBUILD works (I'll find out soon), but reading https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/li/linux-rt/PKGBUILD I can e.g. use make oldconfig, but "# remove the sublevel from Makefile # this ensures our kernel version is always 3.X-ARCH # this way, minor kernel updates will not break external modules" What if I need e.g. 3.0.12-rt30-test1 and 3.0.12-rt30-test2 with different configs? Is there something equivalent to Debian's equivs? http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-helpers.en.html E.g. to remove pulseaudio, which was installed as dependency of xfce4, or to install a self build, selected version of jack2 and to keep dependencies. I couldn't find Jack2 64-bit (searching the Internet from a Suse install, didn't run packman)?! Anyway, 32-bit seems to be 1.9.7 and I need 1.9.8, because I need the -Xalsarawmidi option. Using this option in combination with a2jmidi_bridge I don't have any audible MIDI jitter. > grep audio /media/archlinux/etc/security/limits.conf @audio - rtprio 65 @audio - nice -10 @audio - memlock 40000 If I edit this to different values, e.g. http://jackaudio.org/linux_rt_config , could it be overwritten by a package upgrade? Cheers! Ralf

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